Why can't these catholic people just chill?

Why haven't all religious groups figured out that since "their god" is the "real god", they can just chill.  What difference does it make if they strive against a certain group of people, when god reserves the final judgment and determines what happens to people who die anyway?

If I KNEW (as they claim) that a deity I believed in was real, I would leave everyone else a lone, cause my god would do whatever he wanted to with them anyway.  He wouldn't need my help.

The fact that these people are so ardently trying to carry out 'the will of god' says to me that deep down, they KNOW that their god isn't real.

If the catholics think that they are going to get anywhere, they have other things coming.  They are trying to use their beliefs as a weapon to stop something that they don't like.  I don't think that any weapon they get will have the force to punch through the armor that the people in the lgbt are wearing.

Because, in a way, we aren't wearing any armor, we are our own armor.  We are showing them who we are, and this allows us to strive forward with relentless force.  We aren't fighting for some idea, or 'mystical being'.  We fight for ourselves, for our right to be happy.

The roman catholic church becomes more and more worthless and outdated every day that they continue to spout their worthless propoganda of hate filled lies and mis-information...

Wave bye bye to the fundietards as those of us with intelligence and a heart leave them to rot in the swamp of their own idiocy.

Benedict XVI's continual ordering the hierarchy in a united effort to oppose Marriage Equality is proof that they have not even considered the harm to children and have ignored the overabundance amount of research data.

The harm that is done to children is tremendous. It cuts deeply at the very core of child's ability to bond/attach to another or other human beings for life. However, in the meantime how many millions of innocent children will continue to be abused in this way because of their criminal neglect of their responsibility.

Everyone is responsible to thoroughly study and learn the facts and research data about human sexuality for the safety and well-being of children. There is a lot more to learn than the outdated, inaccurate and whimsical ideas of "the birds and the bees," a child's life depends on our being responsible in this regard.

 Read more how opposingMarriage Equality is severely harmful to very young children growing up gay –> For Life!!! -> on ->Sexual orientation is less about sex and more about love, being one with another human being. Attachment Theory - - LOVE & RELIGION

Yes the  U.S. Bishops are currently individually reviewing the draft of a pastoral letter -- "Marriage: Love and Life in the Divine Plan" --which they will formally consider at their Nov. 16-19 national meeting [2009]. With all due respect this pastoral letter will become their most vivid indictment against them and Benedict XVI exposing their irresponsible leadership at the expensive of millions of innocent children, globally.

Important note: I mean no disrespect to Pope Benedict XVI or the hierarchy, the one and only concern is the safety and well-being of children.Kids are being hurt!!!

Most of the Catholic Church is an organization of intolerance, thus I condemn for their homophobia. Same-sex marriage is a very important right that must be respected, thus reasons against same-sex marriage don't have credibility. The Catholic Bishops are going to release a statement made up of nonsense which is not worthy to anyone, but intolerant conservatives. However, it's good that Fortunate Families has a correct view of LGBT rights and adoption by LGBT couples.

Well, I DO mean disrespect to Pope Bennedick. The man is a bigot and as such deserves NO respect. I am sick and tired of the Catholic Church sticking its nose in where it does not belong. It is about time that the Church learns that this is not 15th C. Europe and that it no longer runs the show. If that is disrespectful, then so be it.

This is the man who has single-mindedly raised the HIV death toll by his refusal to admit that condoms are not only a birth control method but can also save lives in countries where women have little or nothing to say about when, where, or how they have sex. Of course I forgot that Bennedick cares very little what women have to endure as long as they keep pumping those babies out (even if they end up being infected with HIV). Some Holy Father, that.

As for gays and the Church? The Church can keep its nose out of our lives and the lives of those we love. All Catholicism seems able to do is to tell LGBTQ people to live lonely, celibate lives AND LIKE IT.

The Church needs to stay out of our bedrooms and out of our lives--that includes their incessant campaign against marriage equality!

How is it even possible to give respect to a Nazi youth-cum-Roman Catholic Pope?

The fact that Joseph Alois Ratzinger even became Pope Benedict XVI speaks volumes of the corruption within the Roman Catholic Church.

Of course, as prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Cardinal Ratzinger used his Nazi background to promote and safeguard the doctrine on the faith and morals throughout the Catholic world.  He was trained as an inquisitor!

Now as Pope, Benedict XVI has commenced a modern day inquisition.  The problem is, however, that the world will not continue to tolerate his (Un)Holiness’s rigid interpretation of faith and morals. 

Let them bring on their modern day fire and brimstone inquisition of centuries ago.  It will do THEM more harm than good.  People will not tolerate it today.  We shall witness an exodus of parishioners, and an exodus of donations made to the church.  We shall see numerous deflating bank accounts, many churches going bankrupt, and of course many empty pews, and although the church will survive, it will be weakened, and the authoritative voice of the church will be seriously reduced.

I can certainly understand your strong feelings regarding the Benedict XVI and the hierarchy.  And you are all most definitely not alone.   However, I made that statement about "respect" so that maybe more conservative church people could not throw the focus off the real issue and on to my being disrespectful.  The focus at all times must remain on the real issue that “Kids are being hurt!!!” by those who oppose “Marriage Equality.”

If we were to meet privately and “off the record” I  assure you I have  plenty of strong feelings to air that could melt both the North and South poles together, in an instant.  But that kind of anger only creates in me even more stronger anger and then more stronger anger and at certain point I am then really off focus and not at all effective to anyone, especially to children who are dependent our help.

Our children are too important to let our anger distract us. Children need our help immediate, so rechanneling our anger is imperative.  The best way in rechanneling anger is to back every strong feeling with facts, the more facts the better.  Now our anger is constructive and more forceful than those who oppose “Marriage Equality.”  If we do not rechannel our anger we become just like Benedict XVI and his hierarchy.  They have absolutely no facts to back any of their statements the same is true of all those who oppose “Marriage Equality.” To allow ourselves to degenerate to the point of Benedict XVI and all those who oppose "Marriage Equality" would be, indeed, criminal on our part to forget about the children and allow them to continue to suffer. We are the adults and we must be responsible, because no one else including Benedict XVI and his hierarchy are even being remotely responsible.  

The issue must always be on the harm caused to children who grow up gay by those who oppose  “Marriage Equality.”  The harm that is caused cuts deeply at a very core of child’s ability to bond, connect, to be one with another or really anyone or any career. 

This harm done to a child is enormous and it is lasting throughout the child’s life.  This is what happens to a child when he or she hears parents, relatives and others strongly opposing “Marriage Equality.” It destroys the child’s future hopes of ever being happy, it dooms the child to a life of depression and isolation and for some to suicide.  Benedict XVI, all the hierachy and those who oppose "Marriage Equality" must be made to see that this is the harm they are causing to children who grow up gay.  It is an inhuman thing to do to anyone, but especially to an innocent very young child.  

Another very important reason to rechannel anger and at the same time to show respect is that it does not allow more conservative traditional church goers to shift the focus off from this harm done to children by focusing attention on my being disrespectful.  It is our objective to teach others about this harm that we have all experienced by Benedict XVI, his hierarchy and others. No one will listen to us about this harm if we let our anger make us look uncivilized, and at that point Benedict XVI and his hierarchy wins and they win big time.  They are then allowed to continue to harm innocent children.  This we must not allow to happen.  

Oh, yes, you know my sentiments exactly.  I have a very hot and explosive temper.  Much of this anger comes from growing up gay as you know. 

And the hurt and pain is still very vivid to me as they are for you. In addition to think that the Vatican, Benedict XVI and the hierarchy are shamelessly inflicting this same kind of pain again and again onto children, especially in places like Maine and DC, I just sizzle.  I sizzle so hotly the I could burn a hole through the earth to China! 

However, I have had the opportunity and experience to “come out” as a gay priest, publicly to my parishioners in Sparta, Michigan, 1997.  And I found with the help of PR coaches how to be civilized and still get the exact message as you so strongly feel out clearly to the opposition and see them change their attitudes towards favoring LGBT people.  

Holy Family Parish is a small country, farming community about 10 miles north of Grand Rapids, Michigan.  The entire area surrounding Grand Rapids has been called very conservative.  If I had expressed myself as you suggested, I would have been run out of town so fast and they all would have had more reasons to hate gay people.

What happened by my being civilized, which I must say is no easy task, I was able to come out and explain the harm to very young children who grow up to be gay. 

People really listened and were drawn into learning about the problem.  Of course, it is not every day that your pastor comes out as gay, and your parish is on all the local news stations and in the newspapers, at least not in 1997.  No one left the parish.  Our collections both general and the building fund did not drop. 

It was startling in the beginning for the parishioners and as well as for me too.

I held sexual educational classes for the parishioners immediately after I came out.  These classes were with 20 parishioners at a time, along with a theologian, psychologist, a pastoral assistant and me, their pastor.  We ran 3 classes a week offer at different times for the parishioners’ convenience.  Any parishioner could attend any class and come to as many classes as they wanted to; they had only to call to register first because each class size was limited to only 20 parishioners at a time. We said that we would have as many classes as long as parishioners wanted to come.  The classes at 3 classes a week ran continuously for nearly 7 weeks and all classes were filled.  The size of the parish was at that time about 600 families.  More is explained in The Grand Rapids Press on -> http://fathermartykurylowicz.blogspot.com/2009/10/impending-rules-on-gay-priests-create_10.html

I learned a lot almost as much as the parishioners did.  Because my focus was on very young LGBT children being hurt by antigay statements made by parents, relatives and the Vatican’s antigay teachings, the parishioners felt freer to discuss their thoughts and feelings about human sexuality. Because were discussing issues related to LGBT children growing up, not adult LGBT people. People rarely think that LGBT children exist. They tend to think that being gay is an adult decision, however, speaking about LGBT children clearly and implicitly explains to them that being gay is not choice. 

Many of them remembered their time growing up as kids and how antigay statements were said about kids they knew growing up who were thought to be gay. Only, now they realized just how bad it was for their friends growing up gay and could better understand their pain and how unfair it was for these kids.

Many after the classes expressed their guilt privately that they felt at the time for these kids were being made fun of. 

Others in the classes started to discuss issues about their own children and how not to hurt them growing up.  Our classes became quite personal that was one reason I limited the classes to only 20 people.  I also ran the classes like a 12 step group meeting, insisting on confidentiality.  By confidentiality, I meant that what parishioners said in the classes remained confidential, which they respected. I wish that you and many others could have seen the change in hearts and minds of this conservative village change toward appreciating better LGBT people.

I found that education on human sexuality is greatly accepted by church people because in the Catholic church, as Fr. Farrow stated last year coming out in California, that all Catholics ever hear on sexuality is “silence.” Sexual education is the key and a whole lot of respect.  Because as I was able to show respect, they in turn did the same to me. This helped to make a space for us all to talk over these hot and heated issues.  

It is not easy to remain calm and respectful all the time.  I did lose it quite badly when I missed understood something that a parishioner said.  I thought that the person said something quite deeming about gay children, when actually she was saying the exact opposite.  I did feel so badly after I exploded. I will never forget the look on this person’s face and the way the rest of the people looked in class. I guess I did not realize that many of their attitudes about me and about being gay had changed to acceptance. You and I are not so use to that happening in some of the most unlikely places like a Catholic Church.  But there it was, unbelievable, however, quite wonderful and endearing. 

Another thing that I need to add that was very helpful to me is that, before I came out, I had an enormous amount of psychotherapy and at the time I had been attending psychology classes at the University of Michigan and functions at their LGBT office, also attending a number of PFLAG meetings, Dignity masses and APA conventions on human sexuality and gender identity. I also had the good fortune to be at both the San Francisco and Los Angelus, which definitely leaves a lasting impression. 

Respect is key in helping to change people attitudes about LGBT people in a way that is favorable to us. 

However, in truth my anger is still there quite vivid and very strong and that is the reason I advocate so strongly for children growing LGBT against the Vatican, Benedict XVI and the hierarchy because of the harm they continue to cause.  I explain more about this on the Thalamus Center blog that I started. http://fathermartykurylowicz.blogspot.com/

However, you have given me the idea that maybe we could use having classes for LGBT people who grew up under the influences of the Vatican’s antigay teachings. I think that we would have a lot to share and to voice.  Who else will listen to us except for other LGBT people treated in the same way. 

With all good wishes,

Marty 

I believe one of the divides between the gay community and the straight community is that the illusions of Christians giving up Jesus as much as LGBT's giving up being gay or lesbian.  First, comes respect for both; second, an understanding that Christians follow Jesus, not gays and lesbians; and the gay community is not above God. Once this respect for Freedom of Religion and the right to excercise it is accomplished from the gay community, instead of attacking bishops, then there will be peace and tolerance.  Parents have the right to their children to bring them up as they see fit.  As the gay community does.  If the family is of religious beliefs, infringing on this will only bring more hardship to the gay community; because, you are asking people to give up their faith for your lifestyle...would you give up your lifestyle for their faith?  Stop the threats of boycotts, delusional attacks on the gay community, victimhood mentality.  It is because of people's religion that they do not agree with your views, and they have rights protecting them from attacks by those who want to impose, or do not agree with those views.  I can no more give up my faith, than you can give up your lifestyle.  Being Gay or Lesbian is not a religion, it is a lifestyle.  It is no different than what every other American shares, and that is individual freedom.  You are not helpless, you are not defenseless, nor does your voice go unheard.  The unborn, abused and neglected children, the mentally challenged and animals are voiceless; you are not in any of those catagories, and should be ashamed of yourselves for portraying yourselves as such.  Instead of "wasting" your time in trying to "intimidate" people into making a choice between your lifestyle and God, spend it with the one you love.  It is not up to me to judge your lifestyle; however, it is my responsibility to choose to whom my faith is in, and to whom I will follow.  If you live your lives honestly, without attacking God via his followers, then your discussion with Him once you have left this earth will be between you and He, but, should you continue this path, you leave no choice but to drag me into your life and make judgements.  Which I do not feel comfortable doing.  This whole time, you have had the answers in your own hands, it is up to you, and no one else.  God Bless.

As long as the RCC meddles in politics you can be very sure that LGBT are not going to take it lying down. The RCC spews hate towards us, telling lies such as that all paedophiles are all gay. Most paedophiles are in fact heterosexual. The time when gays would let the churches walk all over them are long past.

Oh and Kevin homosexuality is no more a "lifestyle" than heterosexuality. And yes, we ARE victims: for centuries we have been burned at the stake, beaten, shot, hung...just because homophobes don't like the fact that we exist.

I'd love to spend all of my time with my spouse, but the hatred of homophobes *and you are amongst them make that impossible. If the RCC doesn't want to marry LGBTQ people that is fine, but when it starts meddling in civil affairs, we will fight it tooth, nail, and claw. If RCCs and others feel "intimidated" then stop sticking your noses in our business. I'm sorry that the Church can't come into the 21st Century but that is not the fault of LGBTQ people. We have been intimidated for centuries by those who hate us, but no more.

The anger of LGBTQ people at the church is more than justified. Even when we are celibate and have no intention of doing otherwise, if the Church finds out that we are gay, they want to throw us out of the priesthood. That is not hating us for what we do but hatred of who we are. 

You may want us to quietly lie down in some corner but if the Church doesn't even want us to be civilly married, well. As for you being dragged into this and forced to make judgements: "Judge not lest ye be judged". I don't care what you think of LGBTQ people and what we should or shouldn't do. Just quit meddling in our affairs!

Guys look.  Pretty much all of the LGBT community doesn't give a single rat's ass what you believe.  JUST LEAVE US ALONE!!!!

The only reason why we care what you do is that the people you follow, yes PEOPLE, not god, hate us for no FUCKING REASON.

It isn't a lifestyle, for one.  A lifestyle is something you have a concious choice over, we have no more choice over our orientation than you do your religion.

As Loan said, how the HELL are we not victims?  We have been persecuted for ages, we aren't even considered 'human' by many groups (such as the catholic church).

All we ask is that you don't support people who vehemently hate us.  Who fight against our struggle to be treated as human beings.

Dude, all we want to do is to be allowed to love and to be loved.  But your church says otherwise.

You say god is homophobic.  God created everything.  If god created everything, then he created us to be LGB or T.

What sense does it make for an all powerful, all knowing being to allow the creation of something he doesn't like?

You say we shouldn't interfere with people raising their children to be bigots.  Should we also let parents beat their children?

I am not angry at myself, and I doubt any of the other LGBTs here are either.

I'm not even angry at god (if he does exist), I'm angry at the pretentious fuckers who presume to be the "voice of god", when they have no better sense of him than does a rock.

Again, keep your faith.  Just leave us out of it.

How can we respect the leader of a group that has hounded, hunted and murdered us for centuries?

That would be like asking a jewish person to respect hitler for being a great man.  Fuck you.

Once more, GET IT THROUGH YOUR SKULLS.  WE AREN'T ASKING PEOPLE TO TAKE UP OUR LIFESTYLES.  WE JUST WANT TO BE LEFT ALONE AND TO BE TREATED AS HUMAN BEINGS.

Paul, the bottom line is that Kevin thinks Christians have the right to meddle in affairs which are none of their business. They cannot just pray for us if they think we are wrong--nope, they want to thwart even something as simple and harmless as our being able to marry the one we love. Any time we do or say anything that criticizes then, they start screaming "persecution".

Maybe we would be inclined to leave RCCs and other fundamentalists alone if they would stop funding immoral referendums to either deny or revoke the right of LGBTQ people. They have the unmitigated arrogance to think that they should be able to vote on our civil rights! How would they like it if queers got to vote on the right of the Church to exist in this country? That isn't likely to happen since this country believes in freedom of religion--such a vote would, I think be struck down on consitutional grounds. If the churches stop meddling in politics we will be quite happy to leave them alone. But if they persist, we will keep trying until we finally get their tax-exempt status revoked. If the Churches are so gung-ho to meddle in politics then let them pay for the priviledge!

Kevin, like all the fundie trolls who post on these sorts of threads is a fanatic. I have yet to see where a fanatic can be reasoned with. He simply thinks we should roll over and play dead because the Pope spews some crap about it. God/dess forbid that we have the audacity to fight back.

Well, he and his fundie buddies are going to have to get over the fact that LGBTQ people no longer lie down and take crap from those who wish to take our civil rights from us. It's a new day, guys, and has been ever since Stonewall. We're here, we're queer, and we are not going away.

This is an email message that I received this morning.

God rejects homosexuality...not mankind; therefor, God is a Homophobe, please take it up with him when you see him...not christians.  We didn't make the rules, nor are we going to change them.

posted by Kevin DeChane

My reply:

God does not reject homosexuals, because God created them exactly the way they are.  It is human beings at are the homophobes.  The people who do not study the truth, the research on human sexuality and twist scripture texts to serve their misconceptions, instead of studying what scripture scholars have to say.  This is where the harm comes from, their ignorance and fear. 

The rules have been changed and are continuing to change. Thank God there are many Christians, as we have witness in the Episcopal and Lutheran Churches this summer accepting LGBT people in all ordained ministries and working on designing liturgical prayers for the rite of marriage for same sex marriages.

It is the Vatican, Benedict XVI and the hierarchy that haven’t changed.  However their ignorance and fear is becoming more publicly apparent to Catholics, because it has been shown that states that have more Catholics, these states have a better chance to have Gay Marriage being passed. 

You have every good reason to be angry and upset, because these are crimes against humanity, however, these people wrongly state that this hatred for homosexuals comes from God and it certainly does not!

The real problem is that it just hurts all us so much, for too long and it is so cruel to be so mistreated for the way we are born. We are working to stop this and many, many are succeeding more than ever before.

With all best wishes, 

Marty 

Well said, Fr. Kurylowicz.

This is an email message that I received this morning.

I believe one of the divides between the gay community and the straight community is that the illusions of Christians giving up Jesus as much as LGBT's giving up being gay or lesbian…

posted by Kevin DeChane

My reply:

Yes, I think you are right no religion should ever dictate to others what they should or should not do.  Neither should any religion be judging non-believers.  However, regardless what religion someone follows, they are not to do harm to children ever.  This is where society cannot allow this crime against children to happen.

Respect for the individual is of prime importance in the Christian religion though often not practiced, at great harm to enormous masses of innocent people and children.  What you are bringing up are the abuses of some Christians, which they are doing to innocent people and children that are not consistent with any principles and doctrines of the Christian religion.

I am a priest and as I have witnessed these abuses and attacks by so called christians onto LGBT adults and children, I strongly feel that there should be some type of laws that govern who can speak out in the name of religion, almost like being licensed like a doctor or a psychologist.  Because so many people just get up and start speaking publicly about the christian religion on important life issues such as LGBT issues and they have absolutely no training to do so or their training has been inadequate.  

Then there are those who have been ordained and they too speak out wrongly about LGBT issues causing great harm to innocent LGBT adults and children.  There should be a way to sue them for malpractice.  We do not allow the professionals in the medical and mental health fields to indiscriminately to harm to people. 

Remember that the Vatican called Galileo, a heretic, and placed him under house arrest for 9 years and he was to be put to death, because he said that the earth revolves around the sun and the Vatican said that that idea went against the bible. Bananas!!!

No one ever has the right to hurt anyone, especially children.

Marty 

This is an email message that I received this morning.

"I like them...and I love God.  I think your anger is not really toward God, The Pope or any Christians...it's with yourself.  This is the mistake homosexual people make...they believe they can change Christianity...boycotting, attacking people for opposing views; you believe you can changepeople's point of view through intimidation, when there's no changing to be done, on anyone's part.  Stop trying to Change people's religion, because you can't stop being homosexual.  Love yourself and the rest will fall into place."

posted by Kevin DeChane

My reply:

You make a very true statement “Love yourself and the rest will fall into place.”  But loving one self is a complex process, though if we truly loved ourselves the rest would fall in place.

With that in mind it is important to know how we process information and how we can best influence change in people’s attitudes.

Please, forgive me for this quick description about Marriage Equality and LGBTQI civil rights using the perspectives from 4 different disciplines collaboratively.

First, from cognitive psychology, we know that our minds take in enormous amounts of sensory information (from the 5 senses) far more that we can consciously process. Our minds continually organizes this information in a manner that makes sense, altering our previous processed and stored information much in the same way that a computer downloads new information.

Second, from social psychology we learn that the arguments presented to persuade people to change their personal attitudes are only those arguments that are presented with logic are consistent and the information is based on facts.

Thirdly, we find from the theology of St. Thomas Aquinas, Compendium Theologiae, “…we can only love what is good existing in reality.”

Lastly, from Dr. Daniel Goleman’s research on “Destructive Emotions” such as anger, he explains their effects (stress) our mental state of mind and then the negative impact that they tend to cause to our immune system. Dr. Goleman explains that the brains scanned by state-of-the-art brain imaging devices (fMRI, MRI) show how brains scanned of people who were angry showed that their brain activity was limited to only two small parts of the brain while the rest of the brain remained inactive. The opposite was true for brains scanned of people laughing; showed every part of their brains lights up meaning the brain activity was total.

Efforts to change attitudes we have to do a lot of homework, which is consistent to what you, stated,  “Love yourself and the rest will fall into place.”

Love yourself begins by organizing our own personal information.  This is equivalent to removing the plank from our own eye before trying to remove speck from our brother’s or sister’s eye.   I have personally been through an enormous amount of psychotherapy.  It is  all related to being raised under the influence of the Vatican’s antigay teachings, as I explain on the Thalamus Center -> Impending rules on gay priests create Catholic divide – by Charles Honey – The Grand Rapids Press – October 8, 2005 * Benedict XVI -> SILENCING TRUTH

http://fathermartykurylowicz.blogspot.com/2009/10/impending-rules-on-gay-priests-create_10.html

This is very helpful when talking to large groups of people because we  begin to realize that we are not any different then the individuals in the group. When we realize our own fears and hang-ups and how hard it is to admit them to ourselves, let alone to others and that we have more yet to face. We are able to approach the people with a sense of reverence and respect to work more collaboratively with each member of the group.

Next, personally we cannot accept information that does not make sense to us. Information that we are able to accept even if it is unpleasant must be based on facts and been consistent.  That is the way our minds work and stores information. The same is true when we are explaining information to people that we want them accept and hopefully change their attitudes. Therefore, we have to do our homework to study the facts and then present them to people.

St. Thomas, “…we can only love what is good.”  This is truth we can never love evil or hate, it will always leave us unsettled and never at peace.  I like to use this as measure when I am delivering a lecture or leading a discussion.   Whatever I am unsettled about I need to identify and be conscious of when speaking in front of people.  I need to be honest about whatever it is because people ability to keep up “baloney” is sharp and it can do damage to your whole presentation.   People can accept honesty but not dishonesty, because back to St. Thomas, “…we can only love what is good.” 

Lastly, anger is destructive in a group of people. Dr. Goleman explains how the brain is not working when we are angry.  The old idea that we got to get our anger out by getting really angry has been proven to be destructive to ourselves. Constructively, if we work at identifying what makes us angry and why, this will us and help us to understand that the same process can be happening to others.  We are better able to be patient and understanding of others.  Next, before speaking to people about something that really angers we need to make sure we have backed every angry feeling with solid facts. 

In this way, we are better able to help people accept and understand difficult information that will be a lasting changed in their attitudes and ours as well.  All the above is built around your statement,  “Love yourself and the rest will fall into place.”

This is no easy task and we are continually updating ourselves, but working it out with others is very helpful.  This is “love your neighbor as yourself.”

Marty 

DeChance:

And I suppose Popes whoring around with prostitutes having children out of wedlock while proclaiming celibacy, ***priests molesting and sexually abusing innocent YOUNG children all the while YOUR (UN)HOLY Church turns its back upon such serious sins...and YOUR church even goes as far as HIDING these terrible sins from parishioners and the public, ***condemning and insisting on NOT using condoms and other forms of protection to SAVE lives and prevent UNWANTED and UNLOVED children from being born, and ***the abuses of power over the centuries of the RCC with regards to the mentally ill, the handicap, and the non-Christian natives and Jews who were tortured to death or more conveniently slaughtered at the hands of the inquisitors and priests,**** and how let's discuss the RCC decision to turn a blind eye during WWII when Jews, Gypsies, Homosexuals, and other undesirables were burned in Nazi ovens, ****the gift giving to the RCC by parishioners for the forgiveness and pardon of UNSPEAKABLE sins, and **** the annulments of marriages (since divorce is not tolerated) leaving children to be bastards in the eyes of society....and these are only a few illustrious examples of the RCC's immoral erosion of thier brand of Christianity......all of that makes me sick to my stomach. 

People in glass houses should not throw stones.  History does not lie. 

“If the family is of religious beliefs, infringing on this will only bring more hardship to the gay community; because, you are asking people to give up their faith for your lifestyle...would you give up your lifestyle for their faith?”

Your assertion that being homosexual is a lifestyle **is** the problem.  If you are truly a Christian, then you would realize that we ALL are born in the image of God.  Hence, our ‘lifestyle’ (as you say) has already been predetermined by God.  As an aside, you must also understand that YOUR god is not necessarily EVERYONE’S God.   Therefore, YOUR god has no jurisdiction or authority over others who do not accept YOUR (mis)interpretation of God.

“If you live your lives honestly, without attacking God via his followers….”

I do not attack God.  I attack his arrogant and ignorant followers who have had the audacity to misinterpret, revise, and pollute the true WORD of the God.  I will continue to fight against every kind of injustice that plagues my country and it’s citizenry.  If YOUR ‘religious’ faith seeks to continue to do harm, impede, or deny others the same rights that you currently enjoy, then YOU and YOUR kind have made yourseves enemies of the STATE.  This is not the Middle Ages, and the Roman Catholic church no longer has the iron-clad monopoly of authority to intimidate or insist that dissenting opinions of beliefs conform to their non-inclusive, intolerant, and unloving ways. 

“…you leave no choice but to drag me into your life and make judgments…”

The same applies to YOU and YOUR kind. 

DeChane is a troll. Ignore him.

CatholicsSuck.com - Archbishop Carlson funds homophobia in Maine and beyond