Urge Tim Hortons to Stop Supporting Anti-LGBT Group
Published August 09, 2009 @ 04:29PM PT
Oh, don't you hate it when doughnuts decide to go homophobic? The Canadian mega-giant Tim Hortons (which in Canada is the largest coffee chain in the country), has decided to co-sponsor a rally in Rhode Island next week hosted by the National Organization for Marriage. Yup, the same National Organization for Marriage that is currently leading campaigns to take away the civil rights of gays and lesbians in Maine to marry, and the same group fighting marriage equality in places like Washington, D.C., New York, New Jersey and elsewhere.
Is this really the type of politics that Tim Hortons wants to support?
Michael Airhart at Truth Wins Out and the Providence Daily Dose were the first ones to point out that, indeed, Tim Hortons is not only sponsoring the anti-gay marriage event, but they've also allowed their logo to be plastered on the brochure for it. To be clear, this is an event hosted by an organization that has said gays and lesbians are a threat to children, and a group that openly promotes discrimination toward gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender citizens.
Here's what the Providence Daily Dose wrote about Tim Hortons sponsoring this event. Take note, Tim Hortons says on their Web site that they don't support those representing religious organizations. Yet, despite that pledge, the restaurant chain is sponsoring the NOM event where a worship concert will take place, and supporting an organization that has consistently partnered with anti-LGBT religious groups.
What in the world [is Tim Hortons] doing sponsoring something like this? Their site says that they support “local initiatives that make a difference” — such as little leagues, Halloween safety, and the like. And that they sponsor community initiatives with a focus on “helping children and supporting fundraising events for non-profit organizations and registered charities.” But not “those representing religious groups [or] political affiliates,” such as.. well, how would you characterise a group like NOM?
Disturbing, right? Well, here's where you can take action, and tell Tim Hortons to get out of the business of sponsoring anti-LGBT organizations. We've got a petition right here at change.org that goes to the company's President & CEO, as well as to their Director of Public Affairs. Please consider signing this, and forwarding it to your friends.
As Truth Wins Out notes, one reason that this sponsorship may have gone through is that Tim Hortons allows its franchise owners to decide on donations and sponsorships. But that reason just isn't good enough when the restaurant's name gets attached to one of the most anti-LGBT groups in the United States. Remember when a Subway franchisee decided to give money to take away the rights of gays and lesbians? Activists fought the hell back, and not only got the donation to the anti-LGBT groupr rescinded, but also got Subway to change their corporate policies to incorporate equal rights for LGBT people.
Now that's the power of activism. And as far as Tim Hortons goes, it's ever-so important to know where they stand on the issue of civil rights for gays and lesbians. Tim Hortons currently has franchises in Maine, where anti-LGBT folks have put a ballot initiative on the slate for this year which could eliminate the rights of gays and lesbians to marry in the state. If Tim Hortons is going to take a position on same-sex marriage by sponsoring organizations like the National Organization for Marriage, LGBT folks and LGBT allies in places like Maine - as well as places like New York, Rhode Island, Pennsylvania, and elsewhere where Tim Hortons are popping up - deserve to know.
UPDATE: For Canadian readers interested in signing the petition, please include both your city and province name in the field for "City," and select "CA" from the list of states. For our petition software, "CA" can act as both California and Canada. This should allow Canadian readers to sign the petition to change.org. Thanks!
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Comments (84)
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Michael is the Communications Director for the Human Rights Program at Harvard Law School, and previously was Communications Director for Pax Christi USA, a progressive Catholic human rights organization.
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It's a shame that Tim Hortons is sponsering the intolerant NOM in a Rhode Island rally. Even if an intolerant frachisee of Tim Hortons is sponsering a rally for NOM, then decisions regarding involvement in local affairs must go to the top level of the company where LGBT equality must be the rule. The activism to change Tim Horton's sponsership of a rally of intolerance must start. Although the conservatives in Maine are against LGBT rights, LGBT rights is superior to them.
Posted by Edwin Bonilla on 08/09/2009 @ 07:10PM PT
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Already sent my notice to TH that I'm suspending purchases and letting my boss know not to bother giving TH gift certificates for Christmas (and why). I like their food generally but if their equality support policies smell sour, then I can easily go elsewhere.
Posted by John Niegowski on 08/09/2009 @ 08:59PM PT
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I was reading through the SEC filings and this is contrary to company policy. Someone needs to check to see if these Canadians know the difference between a 501(c)3 and a 501(c)4 (NOM).
Presumablym this is the activity of a franchisee and I haven't a clue if they contract to honor the company's sponsorship policies.
Posted by David Hart on 08/09/2009 @ 09:15PM PT
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RE: "... 'These' Canadians" - Is that like "them gays," lol? To whom are you referring? Perhaps you're talking about specific individuals in particular, in which case I apologize. Just wondering....
Posted by David July on 08/09/2009 @ 10:34PM PT
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Thats like saying "All Americans" etc etc...There are so many franchises of Tim Hortons, both in Canada and the united states, so, that rally support may just be something that particular franchise is doing.
Posted by Amanda C on 08/10/2009 @ 06:16AM PT
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Tim Hortons is not a Canadian company, and hasn't been for many years now. They were bought by Wendy's. So "these Canadians" might be moot...
Posted by feygele blogs on 08/10/2009 @ 06:21AM PT
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Actually, Tim's is Canadian again as of this year - an icon returns! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Hortons#Return_to_Canada
Posted by Sean C on 08/10/2009 @ 07:43AM PT
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"...these Canadians"...nice...sounds like something your wonderfully right-wing, all opinion all the time Fox News channel might say (because Americans are clearly better and smarter than any other group of people out there, now aren't you?) We're obviously naive and don't know anything about your laws...good thing you're a lawyer and can fill us all in.
For the record, most Canadians would be *appalled* at this choice of sponsorship so, honestly, why not *keep* us on board by not lumping us all into the same pudding? "These Canadians" come from all conceivable walks of life, and we're actually pretty proud of that.
Posted by A. M. on 08/10/2009 @ 09:01AM PT
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Yeesh. I was only pointing our that this is a Canadian company and that Canadian management might not appreciate that NOM is not a US charity. Americans are confused about our tax code.
A charity is incorporated as a 501(c)3. Tax exempt and donations are tax deductible.
NOM is incorporated as a 501(c)4 which is generally reserved for political organizations. NOM is tax exempt but donations are NOT tax deductibe.
The point that I inartfully made at 1:00 AM is that supporting NOM is very close to supporting a political candidate. While franchisees determine sponsorships, there seem to be clear corporate guidelines that are not met with NOM.
Posted by David Hart on 08/10/2009 @ 09:16AM PT
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nicely put!
Posted by David July on 08/10/2009 @ 09:17AM PT
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Oops, I was referring to A. M. 's post when I said, "nicely put," but I appreciate your (David Hart's) reply too. Cheers!
Posted by David July on 08/10/2009 @ 09:19AM PT
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Hi David,
I do realize what you were likely trying to point out--it is a Canadian company and the people who are part of that company should know their own policies and know better. If it had been worded that way, I wouldn't have thought you meant all of us.
Anyway, on the basics we do agree...I'm really shocked they would sponsor this because usually where I am from they sponsor, oh, kids soccer (my son is currently a "timbit"). You will get a big Canadian outcry: it is, after all, "our" company and when they do dumb things (like firing an employee for giving a small child a free timbit), we get very upset about it!
Posted by A. M. on 08/10/2009 @ 09:26AM PT
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Check this out. Right to the top of the Google finance page:
http://www.google.com/finance/company_news?q=NYSE:THI
Posted by David Hart on 08/09/2009 @ 09:59PM PT
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Very NICE!!!!!!! Thanks!
Posted by Dave Hershey on 08/09/2009 @ 10:27PM PT
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Many thanks to Michael A. Jones and Change.org for launching this petition -- and to Wesli Dymoke for uncovering the story for Providence Daily Dose.
Posted by Michael Airhart on 08/09/2009 @ 10:28PM PT
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Thank you so much for bringing this issue to light. Here is a copy of my note to Tim Horton's:
I have learned that Tim Hortons is listed as a sponsor of an event in Rhode Island that is organized by the National Organization for Marriage. This religious organization's mission is to actively pressure communities and lawmakers to block any attempts to extend equal treatment to gays and lesbians.
Three years ago this month, my partner and I crossed the border in Sarnia, Ontario to begin a new chapter in our lives as new Canadian immigrants. We made this decision for many reasons, but at the top of the list was our desire to live in a country and a community that not only overwhelmingly shares our belief in equal treatment for everyone, but one that deplores any efforts counter to that belief. I am attaching a photograph with this comment that captures a moment that happened on 3-May 2008 - the day my partner and I officially became husbands, a basic human right recognized by our friends, our community and our government.
I am appalled that an institution that has represented this wonderful Country in so many ways chooses to align itself with an organization and event that promotes discrimination and intolerance. It is not my place to demand that you as a company rectify or change this decision, but I do have a choice in where I spend my money and where I recommend to my friends or community where they spend their money.
Until this sponsorship is rescinded or an official Tim Horton's communication is released expressing its adherence to its own non-discrimination mission statement and policy my money will be spent elsewhere. I congratulate Tim Horton's on it's success as being a Canadian company moving into the US market - that's something for all Canadians to be proud of, but adapting to that country's hurtful and discriminating beliefs is disgraceful.
Please do the right thing. For Canada. For my husband and me. For humanity.
Posted by Mason Byrne on 08/10/2009 @ 06:02AM PT
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I am appalled to learn of Tim Hortons' involvement at an anti equal marriage involvement in Rhode Island, not just in the sense of someone bringing a Big Tim and passing it around but in the sense of the logo being plastered everywhere where people opposed to consenting gay and lesbian adults, the same gay and lesbian adults who happen to line a healthy chink of your coffers, vocalize that fear and hatred.
Look, I know the US market is a pain to really break in to but couldn't you have given money to other organizations for other festivals? Perhaps a gay pride event to make up for this? Until there is an apology, an official, non half-assed apology but an actual effort made to apologize, then the $2000 or so a year I spend at your varied establishments will go elsewhere.
Posted by Steven Curtis on 08/10/2009 @ 06:12AM PT
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I will take my business elsewhere until you correct this! Wether I buy my tea/coffee in the US or Canada, it WILL NOT be from a Tim Horton's.....Back to basic and make my own for the road!
Choosing to support a group that doesn't support same sex marriage is NOT someone I want to spend my hard earned money on!
Kelly Ontario CANADA!
Posted by Kelly Roy on 08/10/2009 @ 06:57AM PT
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This just confirms the sense in my decision several years ago to stop using Tim Hortons' in favour of small, locally owned cafes. The coffee doesn't cost that much more, its usually fair trade organic, it isn't generally stale (believe it or not, most people that go to big chains are so used to the stale taste of coffee that they think its what coffee should taste like) and I don't have to worry about them supporting these kinds of causes. Check out your local cafe, you'll probably be really happy that you did.
Posted by Jeff Bergeron on 08/10/2009 @ 07:07AM PT
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Well this is an interesting good morning to bigotry. Well I have a cure for this problem... Boycott. There are far more people that cant stand NOM, whether they believe in full rights or second class rights for us LGBT, who would be willing to stop buying their putrid coffee. These people far outnumber and outweigh Mrs. Piggy Gallagher and her heterosexual supremacy group NOM.
Posted by Chris Marshall on 08/10/2009 @ 07:39AM PT
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Now don't get me wrong. I support gay rights and gay marriage. But people everywhere, just as the gays and lesbians, ARE entitled to their opinion and this group happens to believe some outdated bullsht about man and woman. However.... an opinion, by definition, cannot be wrong.
As an avid Timmie lover, I will not stop drinking my morning and afternoon brews because of something like this. Unfortunately, you won't find too many who would. We're all addicted up here in Canada.
Tim Hortons are individually owned and operated. Perhaps the bigot down there who's running that particular franchise offered up some backing to this event. But I'm not so sure any Tim Hortons in Canada would EVER do such a thing...especially given we're so open minded up here.
Anyway. Just a thought.
Posted by K K on 08/10/2009 @ 07:53AM PT
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Would love it if the petition could be made to include Canadian Postal Codes too. There's lots of Canadian Tim Horton's customers that aren't happy about this.
Posted by Brian Skene on 08/10/2009 @ 08:04AM PT
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Seconding the request for Canadian postal codes. In the meantime, Canadians (and others with non-USA addresses) can contribute by going to http://www.timhortons.com/ca/en/contactform.html
and pasting in the content of the petition letter.
Posted by Rick Innis on 08/10/2009 @ 08:30AM PT
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'Thirding' the request for Canadian postal codes, please.
Posted by David July on 08/10/2009 @ 08:40AM PT
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Also: It's a free event. I suggest every queer who can get there should show up and help celebrate. There's more than one kind of marriage and more than one kind of family!
Posted by Rick Innis on 08/10/2009 @ 08:43AM PT
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Let's protest on site!
Posted by David July on 08/10/2009 @ 08:50AM PT
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I understand that the Providence Equality Action Committee is planning a counter-rally at the NOM event. Details are forthcoming.
Persons interested in participating in such a rally may monitor or join the PEAC group on Facebook at:
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/group.php?gid=137462683528
--
Mike Airhart
Truth Wins Out
Posted by Michael Airhart on 08/10/2009 @ 08:59AM PT
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Hi folks,
For Canadian readers interested in signing the petition, please include both your city and province name in the field for "City," and select "CA" from the list of states. For our petition software, "CA" can act as both California and Canada. This should allow Canadian readers to sign the petition to change.org. Thanks!
Mike
Posted by Michael Jones on 08/10/2009 @ 09:08AM PT
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I don't go to Tim Horton's, I have a lot of gay friends who do, and I will definetely let them know this. That's very disgusting when a huge company like Tim Horton's sponsors something that so blatantly disregards the human rights of ALL CANADIANS. I HATE HOMOPHOBIC IGNORANT PEOPLE.
Posted by Carol Stegman on 08/10/2009 @ 09:36AM PT
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Don't you have better things to worry about than a coffee shop sponsoring an event?
I don't like PRIDE parades, but I didn't withdraw all my money from TD Canada Trust for sponsoring one.
Sheesh
Posted by John W on 08/10/2009 @ 10:02AM PT
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I take offense that Gays and Lesbians are labelled as a danger to kids, I would leave my kids under the care of a "gay" or "lesbian" over straight people, as we all know tend to be the pedophile, mass murders, rapist and the lot!
Tim ever since being bought by Americans, is just another way to get thier "White Normal" views across. Sad!
Posted by Orion Hunter on 08/10/2009 @ 10:07AM PT
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T.H. isn't sponsoring an anti-gay event - they're sponsoring a marriages event - get real! We as a society could use more moral support in this arena; you know, maybe slow the single parent trend.
Correct - the group organizing the marriages event is an Anti-LGBT group. Incorrect - Tim's is supporting an Anti-Gay movement...they are simply supporting the union of marriage. Pull your heads out of your _____ and smell the coffee (pun-intended).
Posted by R P on 08/10/2009 @ 10:07AM PT
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The thing is, this so-called 'union of marriage' supports the discrimiation of people based on their sexuality. Most people would be up in arms if it were say a group against mixed race marriages. Just throwing that out there.
I get that it is up to the franchised store to give their support and whatnot, but if such obvious hate-speech is supported, I think the company has the responsibility to react to that.
Posted by Enk G. on 08/10/2009 @ 10:23AM PT
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"Correct - the group organizing the marriages event is an Anti-LGBT group. Incorrect - Tim's is supporting an Anti-Gay movement...they are simply supporting the union of marriage. Pull your heads out of your _____ and smell the coffee (pun-intended)."
Perhaps you need to read the pamphlets that explain how it will teach workshops on how to "protect marriage." That right there shows intolerance and anti-family values towards those that are not in accordance with Gallagher or other insane idiots who dont know the difference between reality and fiction.
"T.H. isn't sponsoring an anti-gay event - they're sponsoring a marriages event - get real! We as a society could use more moral support in this arena; you know, maybe slow the single parent trend."
Morality is a very subjective fallacy people buy into. What was moral one decade ago is now immoral today. Just two decades ago we as a society thought it was perfectly moral to harass and discriminate against victims of HIV infection, because at the times "only gays have HIV." After many straight people came forward with having this disease it changed peoples minds and their moral ambiguities on how to treat such people. Had these people not come forward it would have taken many more years to get the idiocies out of peoples minds about what HIV is, because even today it's still moral to support discrimination against gay people.
Another thing to touch on moral support is gay families who need their rights to civil marriage. Do you find it moral to support organizations that feel these families are not families, that they dont deserve their children, who they love unconditionally?
So It appears the only one with his or her head up their ass is you.
Peace
Posted by Chris Marshall on 08/12/2009 @ 09:48AM PT
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ATTENTION "John W." and "R P":
Tim Hortons IS IN FACT sponsoring an "organized opposition against same-sex marriage!"
Do some research next time, and read the fine print before shooting off at the mouth-what the hell is wrong with you?
Here is the actual poster for the event, buddies! Enjoy the coffee being served...
http://www.nomri.org/atf/cf/%7B68e2d769-444e-4146-bb45-b419ecdc260a%7D/trifoldInside.jpg
Posted by David July on 08/10/2009 @ 10:20AM PT
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My point exactly, the event is to support the institution of marriage, and for husbands and wives of opposite sex to celebrate this - not to bash same sex marriage - atleast this is what it says under "Why We Are Doing This".
NOM's Mission simply describes NOM's intent as an organization.
Likewise, gay PRIDE parades etc. support their respective institution. It doesn't mean people of opposite sex marriages need to get up in arms about it because their interest is not showcased...
Posted by R P on 08/10/2009 @ 10:59AM PT
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"Founded in 2008 in response to the growing need of organized opposition to same-sex marriage in the Rhode Island state legislature..."
It's not a celebration of same sex marriage or all marriage, it's a loose cloak for hate-speech. breaks my brain how you couldn't see that.
Posted by Enk G. on 08/10/2009 @ 11:14AM PT
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If you want my opinion Enk its because this guy or girl we are replying to ether has a servre reality perception problem like most religious people, and/or just an idiot.
I wouldnt say he or she is ignorant because there is far too much information out there from the APA and the AMA about the normalicy of homosexuality, and this site on change.org is a perfect example of just how similar and equal we are to straight people.
This R P person seems to just be here to instigate negative emotions from us to support their non factual conclusions that LGBT are "X." A typical troll.
Posted by Chris Marshall on 08/12/2009 @ 10:16AM PT
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While I do indeed find this a bit shocking, something tells me that what is really happening here is that someone in the corporate sponsorships department at Tim's simply didn't do their homework. I'll betcha a doughnut that Tim's will back off when they realize what's what.
Posted by Nick Van der Graaf on 08/10/2009 @ 10:30AM PT
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I agree, Nick. Although they'll only realize this and act if we do something about it - hence the importance of raising a fuss to get them to do the right thing asap and for the LGBT community and straight allies to make it clear to corporations everywhere that this sort of thing is unacceptable.
Posted by Ben Rattray on 08/10/2009 @ 10:55AM PT
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Is that sponsor Northmark Bank? I cannot make out the image from the brochure.
Posted by David Hart on 08/10/2009 @ 10:50AM PT
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Personally, I don't see why any of you want to support Tim Hortons. They are a mass franchise which provides crappy food, crappy service and doesn't allow for small businesses to thrive. This is because all of you are too damn lazy to get out of your cars and walk into a quality coffee shop. Don't help Tim's, let them get themselves out of their own mess and let people see tim Hortons for what it really is. A waste of space and money!
Posted by Valerie Broadbent on 08/10/2009 @ 10:52AM PT
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*slow applause*
I was waiting for someone to say this.
Posted by Chris Marshall on 08/12/2009 @ 10:17AM PT
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Bravo Tim's! This is great news.
Posted by Randy Van Seters on 08/10/2009 @ 10:57AM PT
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Tim Hortons has already backed away from the sponsorship-on their website http://www.timhortons.com/ca/en/about/2823.html
They state the following:
Tim Hortons responds to inquiries about Rhode Island event sponsorship
Recently, Tim Hortons was approached in Rhode Island to provide free coffee and products for a local event, as we do thousands of times a year across Canada and the United States.
For 45 years, Tim Hortons and its store owners have practiced a philosophy of giving back to the communities in which we operate. As a company, our primary focus is on helping children and supporting fundraising events for non-profit organizations and registered charities.
For this reason, Tim Hortons has not sponsored those representing religious groups, political affiliates or lobby groups.
It has come to our attention that the Rhode Island event organizer and purpose of the event fall outside of our sponsorship guidelines. As such, Tim Hortons can not provide support at the event.
Tim Hortons and its store owners have always welcomed all families and communities to its restaurants and will continue to do so. We apologize for any misunderstanding or inconvenience this may have caused.
Posted by Scott Snider on 08/10/2009 @ 11:01AM PT
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Boy do I feel sorry for you Americans! As a side note, and insofar as involvement would include hate-speech, or hate propaganda, is concerned, not only would these (and other) organizers NOT BE ALLOWED to form support against gays, but would also be thrown in jail.
Just have a look at this, something which I include here for your information-and perhaps for something to look forward to in the American future.... All the best!
CANADA INDICTABLE OFFENCE - HATRED OF PERSONS BASED ON SEXUAL ORIENTATION/ TERMS OF IMPRISONMENT:
In May 2004, the House of Commons and the Senate passed Bill C-250:
An Act to amend the Criminal Code (hate propaganda), popularly known as Bill C-250, added penalties to the Criminal Code of Canada for inciting the hatred of persons on the basis of sexual orientation. Prior to this amendment, the section protected only race, religion, ethnic origin, and colour, gender and disability. As with all Canadian legislation, this act has equal force in French in which it is called "La Loi modifiant le Code criminel (propagande haineuse)."
The Canadian Criminal Code, as amended, NOW INCLUDES the following provisions:
319.* (1) Everyone who, by communicating statements in any public place, incites hatred of persons on the basis of sexual orientation where such incitement is likely to lead to a breach of the peace is guilty of
(a) an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two (2) years; or
(b) an offence punishable on summary conviction.
(2) Everyone who, by communicating statements, other than in a private conversation, willfully promotes hatred against persons on the basis of sexual orientation is guilty of
(a) an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two (2) years; or
(b) an offence punishable on summary conviction.
*Section Notes:
1) "Communicating" includes communicating by telephone, broadcasting, or other audible or visible means;
2) "Public place" includes any place to which the public have access as of right or by invitation, express or implied;
3) "Statements" includes words spoken, written, recorded electronically, or electro-magnetically or otherwise, and gestures, signs, or other visible representations.
Posted by David July on 08/10/2009 @ 11:04AM PT
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David:
Inciting opinion or clarifying an unbiased intent is far from inciting hate.
p.s. I am Canadian.
Posted by R P on 08/10/2009 @ 11:14AM PT
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like that event is unbiased, seriously. How naive are we? Also, if this event were in an unbiased way expressing how non-white people should not marry white people you know expressing white pride and all... would that still not be inciting hate?
Posted by Enk G. on 08/10/2009 @ 11:17AM PT
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"When two points of view are argued with equal intensity, the truth does not necessarily lie in between. It is possible for one side to simply be wrong." -Richard Dawkins (quote on creationism vs evolution)
R P these antigay special interest groups are far from unbias. Unbais organizations include the APA, AMA, NASW, EDN, NAP, and many others. These organizations state very bluntly that homosexuality is normal, is not harmful, and is equal to heterosexuality. They state that any interest group that says otherwise is simply "wrong." This is because there "opinions" are far from being supported by the half century of scientific evidence, fact and study.
Also words kill. Hitler didnt take over Germany with guns, he took over Germany with words.
Posted by Chris Marshall on 08/12/2009 @ 10:27AM PT
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Too bad Scott, I thought someone finally grew a backbone...
Posted by Randy Van Seters on 08/10/2009 @ 11:04AM PT
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http://www.timhortons.com/ca/en/about/2823.html
We win!
Posted by Liz Dewdney on 08/10/2009 @ 11:24AM PT
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I just saw that too! Now it's time to create a new action thanking them for pulling their support from the event.
Posted by Dave Hershey on 08/10/2009 @ 11:45AM PT
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I am a mother of a wonderful gay daughter. I also have two heterosexual daughters, and one heterosexual son. Did two heterosexual parents teach our gay daughter to be gay? No we did not tell any of our children what sex they should be attracted too. Nor does a gay couple tell their children who they should be attracted too. That comes from inside each individual person. When we grow up we don't ask ourselves, should I like boys or should I like girls, or I like both, or I don.t feel I am on the inside what I am on the outside. Mother Nature decides all of that. We all want to be loved and accepted, so why would anyone choose to be gay and be hated by groups like NOM? Anyone supporting a hate group of any kind should step back and think, what if someone hated me like I hate them? Living with hate is no way to live. We were made to love and it feels so good when we do. Come on NOM and anyone that feels like they do, try loving someone different than yourselves, that feels really good too. Hitler was all about hate and look what that did to a lot of innocent people around the world and what did that get him, NOTHING, except power for awhile. That's all I have to say for now, except love one another as I love you. Try it you'll like it.
Posted by betty Hubrecht on 08/10/2009 @ 12:44PM PT
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Tim Horton's has already pulled their sponsorship. Their website says:
Recently, Tim Hortons was approached in Rhode Island to provide free coffee and products for a local event, as we do thousands of times a year across Canada and the United States.
For 45 years, Tim Hortons and its store owners have practiced a philosophy of giving back to the communities in which we operate. As a company, our primary focus is on helping children and supporting fundraising events for non-profit organizations and registered charities.
For this reason, Tim Hortons has not sponsored those representing religious groups, political affiliates or lobby groups.
It has come to our attention that the Rhode Island event organizer and purpose of the event fall outside of our sponsorship guidelines. As such, Tim Hortons can not provide support at the event.
Tim Hortons and its store owners have always welcomed all families and communities to its restaurants and will continue to do so. We apologize for any misunderstanding or inconvenience this may have caused.
http://www.timhortons.com/ca/en/about/2823.html
Posted by ND S on 08/10/2009 @ 01:59PM PT
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Tim Hortons has withdrawn it's sponsorship, but its explanation on the web site is vague and unsatisfactory. Nowhere does it explain that a Tim Hortons franchise wrongly sponsored an anti-gay event or that Tim Hortons opposes discrimination against gays. Apparently, Tim Hortons wants to have it cake (the patronage of gays) and eat it too (the patronage of those who discriminate against gays. Go nuts for donuts elsewhere: boycott Tim Hortons!
Posted by Demeda Mark on 08/10/2009 @ 02:45PM PT
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I agree with Demeda Mark!
Posted by David July on 08/10/2009 @ 03:22PM PT
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What the hell TH...how hypocritical can you be? How much gay money has pumped through your doors?
Posted by Colleen McLean on 08/10/2009 @ 04:57PM PT
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Its days like today which make me a very truly proud Canadian. To know that one only needs to step up and make their voice heard in hopes of correcting an injustice.
As President of PFLAG CANADA, I applaud Tim Hortons for yet again recognizing the need for what it RIGHT instead of first considering what may provide profit. By enforcing their non-political / non-lobbiest policy, even when it might cause some embarassment, they have chosen the more inclusive and diverse path which helps to make Canada a better place to live.
On behalf of PFLAG Canada, we congratulate Tim Hortons on an excellent corporate ethic, and (as usual) a job well done.
Posted by Stacy Green on 08/10/2009 @ 07:26PM PT
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Congrats all! The issue — and this website as well as this very page indeed! — made this evening's CBC NATIONAL NEWS.
Hope you didn't mind as several of your comments, and names, flashed up on screen!
Cheers!
Posted by David July on 08/10/2009 @ 07:42PM PT
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When you find something like this happen, why do you have to go nuts with petitions and get on the news? Why can you not 1st send an email or call the head office to report what that franchise has done? Over reaction by all of you. Anyone can be duped into a sponsorship so next time talk to someone before spazzing out and wasting time on a petition.
If you did follow any preliminary steps before taking this road, where is the news flash on that? ie. Tim Horton's ignores emails, can't reach head office, head office doesn't react quickly enough to my complaint....guess the aggressive action got their attention....
http://www.timhortons.com/us/en/about/2759.html
Canada is generally LGBT friendly and most corporations follow the same tolerant policies.
Media hype out of control. Peace.
Posted by Bubba Jones on 08/11/2009 @ 06:48AM PT
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Bubba,
I personally appreciate your comments and think that you raised some good points. I'm more likely to believe, however, that you may be underestimating the effects of Tim Hortons' mistake/oversight for damage has already been done (see previous posts), and that you may be being a little naive.
Please also note that a major point raised in last night's media coverage on CBC was about the increasing ability for individuals to effect change using modern social networking tools such as Facebook and this very website, which was prominently featured in the coverage.
Cheers!
Posted by David July on 08/11/2009 @ 07:29AM PT
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May I suggest . . . ?
The most effective thing that we can do at this point is simply to show up, debunk and make our presence known. That does NOT mean to behave like a tea-bagger.If you are in the area, go to the event with your partners and children.
NOM make it easy. Their talking points are on their website. Some counterpoint is here:http://www.tips-q.com/906523-noms-distributed-talking-points
Keep in mind that NOM is a BUSINESS. It is a tex-exempt politcal consultancy designed to provide income and benefits to Maggie and friends. They are now demonizing Tim Gill. Some additional counterpoint is here: http://www.tips-q.com/1231859-nom-takes-tips-q
Posted by David Hart on 08/11/2009 @ 08:17AM PT
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The fact that this is even an issue is a complete joke. I have lost all respect for the gay community who preach fairness and equality for all. Lets have a gay pride parade and celebrate but no you cannot have a straight pride parade that would be an outrage. What a double standard and quite frankly pretty ridiculous. How do you expect people to take you seriously with views like this? Give your heads a shake and stop making your community look like self-righteous bigots.
Posted by Joe Smith on 08/11/2009 @ 11:31AM PT
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Attention Joe Smith:
You clearly haven't done your research pal!
The difference -- and the true double standard here -- is that gay pride parades aren't an "organized opposition to 'straight' marriage" whereas the mission of the event in question IS clearly one that opposes same-sex marriage, which they have no problem admitting directly on the flyer for the event itself.
Please stop wasting others time until you immerse yourself in the details. Moreover, it seems transparent that you need not look any farther than the mirror if you wish to point out self-righteous bigotry. That much is evident!
David July
Posted by David July on 08/11/2009 @ 11:46AM PT
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Ok david/my new pal, your telling me that if there was a huge straight parade with no negative reference to homosexuality that there wouldnt be an uproar? Of course there would and if you think otherwise then your foolish. Thats what we call a double standard pal.
Posted by Joe Smith on 08/11/2009 @ 12:23PM PT
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Joe,
Let us not get away from the real issue here. The group in question is an anti-gay initiative whose mission is blatantly to form an "organized opposition to same-sex marriage."
In Canada at least, this is called discrimination, and is not only wrong—it is illegal. Hopefully, one day, this will the case in America too.
Cheers pal!
Posted by David July on 08/11/2009 @ 12:37PM PT
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Although off the Tim Horton's topic, thought it good to let Joe know that a Straight Pride parade would not be the equivalent of a Gay Pride parade:
Gay Pride Parade is not about pride in a specific sexuality, but it's a day dedicated to feeling confident & celebrating the person you are & believing you are equal & worthy when you know that many in society at present (and many groups, including some governments) say you are less than equal, only because of your sexuality. Pride Day is one day of the year many can forget about ridiculous inequalities, negativity & fear of threats.
Normal heterosexuals do not carry the burden of being told they are deviant, a threat to society, subject to unequal benefits & rights, and heterosexuals aren't usually worried about holding hands in public, so such a "Straight Pride" parade would be unnecessary and a slap in the face to many homosexuals. Would just exist to ridicule Gay Pride - and surely attract a significant number of anti-gay groups, like this NOM group, and for sure Fred Phelps too.
So a reaction to such a parade would be deserved, and not a double-standard.
Posted by Jeff S on 08/11/2009 @ 09:39PM PT
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And thank God Tim Horton's resolved this issue as I go there 4 times/week and would hate to leave and find an alternative. But I would have, in a second.
Posted by Jeff S on 08/11/2009 @ 09:44PM PT
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Listen, in CANADA,Tim Hortens is a recruiting place for the military! i have stopped 5 weeks now.their summer camps are for disfortunates not disabled..on their screen 5 weeks ago in Stittsvill Ontario they were advertising for the unfortunates to join the armed forces where they advertise their menus..After talking to the reps they stated they would take it off the air.It had the gov`t of \canada logo etc???spookey isn`t it.they wanted to send me gifts to get me back..forgat it Timmy ,
Posted by norman doucette on 08/11/2009 @ 06:03PM PT
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I'm afraid I don't see any similarity between using public opinion to pressure one corporation into cleaning up its act where human rights violations are concerned and using it to pressure another corporation into waiving its legal right to take part in legal function where no one's rights are being abused. Being opposed to gay rights, as the NOM undoubtedly is, is a far cry from violating them.
Whether we like it or not, groups like the NOM might be promoting very narrow-minded agendas, but that's all they're doing. They have the legal right to exist as well as the freedom to believe what they want to believe, and exercising their right to express their beliefs in no way actually infringes on anyone else's rights and freedoms. Are they close-minded? Definitely. Bigoted? Possibly. A threat to gay rights? Conceivably. Currently violating anyone's rights? Not at all.
Fortunately for all of us in Canada and the US, no one can take action against anyone else merely for what they think, but only for what they do. That's why it's important to stand up for the rights of people and corporations alike to participate in legal activities without being pressured to comply with someone else's standards of right and wrong.
If we allow privately owned corporations to be be deprived of that freedom, then who's next? That's right, my friend: you, me, and everyone else on this blog. What we want simply won't matter because at least some of our rights will no longer exist: we'll be dancing to somebody else's tune. The best way to ensure that our own rights are respected is to ensure that everyone else's rights are respected, too, even those people with whom we disagree and perhaps even detest.
Posted by Neville Ross on 08/14/2009 @ 06:50PM PT
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Just for the record, the event taking place in rhode island isn't a "rally". It is more of a cookout with bands playing and some guest speakers. I was sorry to see Tim Hortons pull their sponsership. Such a shame that companies can be so itimidated by the gay lobby. Even worse is that they will cower to this group but think nothing of offending Christians. But the event will take place anyway without Tim Hortons support. Thank you for your time!
Posted by Rob Itteilag on 08/14/2009 @ 08:10PM PT
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Cookout, rally, clambake... term is of little importance (although rally can be defined as "a get-together of like-minded enthusiasts, primarily to meet and socialize").
Tim Horton's did not "cower" to "the" gay lobby. It was simply made aware that one franchisee had breached the company's code of ethics and standard business practices. Simple. But seems you want to spin it into an issue of an all-powerful gay force that intimidates corporations (into being ethical). Funny you don't also comment on the American Family Association's "One Million Moms" that go around forcing corporations to pull ads...? Do corporations "cower" to that group?
And TH thinks nothing of offending Christians? Huh? Sorry but as a Christian, Tim Horton's has never offended me. And their relatively quick action to resolve this matter has prevented an incident that may have been offensive to me - as a Christian.
Sorry - using that old divisive "us versus the gays" line is frankly far too old & irrelevant these days. The problem is, you don't really know who "the gays" really are and who this "group" is that you refer to. They're normal people: in your neighborhood, in your office, in your church, your doctors & nurses - and in your family... You likely don't even know they are gay as they may be too uncomfortable around vocally anti-gay people to reveal that side of their lives.
Posted by Jeff S on 08/15/2009 @ 02:48AM PT
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Hi friends, things are a little slow lately on the immigration side of this blog. Things are looking up here, an e-mail directed me here, lucky for you. I see there are 72 comments and I for one need all the exposure I can get, that's www.steinforgovernor.com
as in Gary Stein, Republican, get that google search engine. Fiscally conservative but definitely liberal "bent" on the social issues. If you go to the second page of aforementioned Stein for Governor (of New Jersey) there's a lot of great you- tubes of my favorite entertainers including rank amateurs. I didn't know anything about you tube 5 months ago, thought it was for high school pranksters.
If you stay on home page you'll see 2 pictures of me and Beto at a Toronto Blue Jays game vs the Orioles. Hadn't been to Canada for over 30 years. Tim Horton was probably still on skates. I never heard of Tim Horton until last May. There is at least one Tim Horton on every street in Quebec it seems, actually there where some streets that had 2. Tim Horton's is definitely coming this way. They make Dunk'n Donuts sad by comparison. Saw on the news that a few just opened in NYC. Anyway we stopped at several Tim Hortons and I passed on the free donut that comes with the sandwich and used it as a credit on the healthy soup. Paid about an extra buck.
I have no dog in this hunt over here at gay rights. Good luck in any future actions you take that you feel when and if necessary. The idiots on the immigration blog don't seem to understand the efficacy of boycotts. Isn't that interesting. Gays do (been doing it for decades). Help explain to them. I'm proposing immediate drivers licenses to "undocumented ???? something" I call them illegals since that is what most Americans call them, and if you want them to at least listen to your ideas you have to sound "realistic" first. So immediate drivers licenses, and a boycott to tell the Mexican gov't in no uncertain terms that small town corruption is on the way out the door. This would include Mexicans not sending home remittances, we secure the border (that appeals to my buds in the Republican Party) and then give them .......amnesty. Amnesty. Amnesty I said it 3 times. Tells those thick skulled immigrant rights activists that once it was on the table, what are we going to then pull it off the table if we don't reach a threshold of 67.3828% of Mexicans not sending money back. You understand activism, it must be new to them. Write me back. It's 5 minutes after 9. logged in at 8:30 and I was supposed to call Beto back in Mexico now- 5 minutes ago. Good luck friends. I could use some of the same.
Posted by Gary Stein on 08/16/2009 @ 06:05PM PT
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*Cricket*cricket*
Posted by Stacy Green on 08/16/2009 @ 06:25PM PT
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*Blink*Blink*
I'm pretty sure the crickets are still chirping on that one too.
Posted by Stacy Green on 08/16/2009 @ 06:59PM PT
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"And now, we continue with your regularily scheduled programming. . . Perhaps (fake) Political Commercial "B.S." free!?"
I've enjoyed reading this thread right from the first posting. I have to admit, plenty of things (submitted) have made me shake my head in true horror for the way some people think. Other things I've read, have brought a lump to my throat, and a gleeful tear in my eye.
What I find interesting - is that the most judgemental and vicious comments come exclusively from those who claim to be acting on behalf of the greater good of society. A society which was formed on the single concept of EQUALITY and FREEDOM. Simply stating that one is "Free to Practice a Religion" (for example) does not inherently grant the declaring party imunity from their own obligations to grant others the right to disagree with their view.
Right Wing Christian concepts of "Right & Wrong" only apply to those who believe in the same set of values. It's the same flawed logic which someone might use to complain that the "lords prayer" is no longer uttered en-mass at public schools. The simple fact of the matter, is that we are a society built on values of EQUALITY, not values of religion. Yes, one could argue that because the USA mentions "God" on a few official documents and tender, that there is a Christian foundation in their society. Well, no - I'm afraid that is a mistake. Conveniently placed, but a mistake non-the-less. "GOD" is not the basis of Christianity. CHRIST is the basis of Christianity. GOD is the basis for nearly every other religion on this planet. Regardless of what we call that god, it is still the singular "all mighty" which is being referred to.
Regardless of that fact, religious values are the sole responsibility of those who believe in them. For a Christian to say that I should bow my head at a public dinner event simply as a show of respect for the person saying "grace" on behalf of the entire room. Well honestly, it is a direct BREACH of my rights as a member of this "FREE SOCIETY". A society which grants ME the right to UN-CONDITIONAL EQUALITY. Not because I'm gay, or straight, or male, female, black, white, first nations, third world or otherwise.
I am a human being. I am of sound mind, and have EVERY RIGHT to equality, EVEN IF I AM NOT someone who wishes to submit to the self rightious fascism which (historically) burned gays at the stake while claimed that it was their "God Given Right" to do so.
NO HUMAN RIGHTS MOVEMENT HAS EVER FAILED. And FOR THAT: I suggest you give thanks, to whatever God, Christ, or other losely plagerized representation of a higher power you think necessary. But STOP assuming that simply because you believe in a religion, its values and teachings somehow apply to any other person, in any way. The facts are... THEY DON'T!
I'm free. Free to choose, free to believe, and free to ignore. This is the same freedoms that Christians have. But freedom of religion means NOTHING unless it is balanced with freedom FROM religion.
One day, the only person who ever asks; "Are you gay?" will be the person hoping to ask you on a date. For everyone else, it won't mean a thing.
Posted by Stacy Green on 08/16/2009 @ 07:28PM PT
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I like your last couple of lines, and hopefully that will be the case one day.
Much of the rest of your post unfortunately seems misplaced in this thread, with rather inflammatory verse which may place your words into that "judgemental comment" category that you speak of.
Posted by Jeff S on 08/16/2009 @ 09:48PM PT
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I don't see how anything I said could be enterpreted as inflammatory. I gladly welcome your comments. Regardless, I shall remind you that the concept of "judgment being wrong" would be a Christian concept. By many other religious cultures, to judge someone is quite acceptable. The greater point here, is to recognize that religion has no place in matters of state. Within the context of this entire discussion, there have been statement after statement of oposition to the equality of someone based explicitly upon a christian &/or religious BELIEF.
Tim Hortons was intelligent enough to have a policy in place which states that they will not involve themselves in matters of religious or moral debate or special interest. We, as a community pointed out that part of their company had "missed that memo" by supporting a group which is openly fundementally religious, and uses that "freedom" to publically humiliate, discriminate, and marginalize a substantial percent of the population of this planet. And they do it, by exploiting their influence over "the state".
The separation of church and state is perhaps the most important "lock" which protects our rights in a democracy.
The fact that we are allowed to tap a company on the shoulder and point out someone's obvious error, is just as valuable as my right to beak off a bit, and perhaps even more importantly: YOUR Right to debate my point. Again, I welcome your comments.
Posted by Stacy Green on 08/17/2009 @ 03:06AM PT
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Stacey, maybe its just me, but did you start out responding to me and sequee (how do you spell that)
http://www.synonyms.net/synonym/switch
over to Jeff S? We have a guy like Jeff on the immigration blog of change.org. Name is Mark Lindley, he's very conservative and he hangs in there no matter what. He's almost as determined as Stein for Governor. No gays want to answer my question I posed for benefit of immigration blog about whether the homosexual community understands the economic power of boycotts?
now I'm getting frustrated. when i do i post you tube videos. i didn't know they had stuff like this on you tube until about 5 months ago
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jjdowef1oKE
Posted by Gary Stein on 08/17/2009 @ 05:04AM PT
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Stacy - could address your comments maybe in another thread, perhaps one on comparitive religious discussions, the history of democracy or possibly reverse discrimination. This one here should be reserved for the Tim Horton's matter.
(But re your question how your comments may be inflammatory, your overall tone was brimming with animosity towards Christians/Christianity, and one particular example is you suggest Christians (in general) today are a part of "the same self-righteous fascism...". As I said in a previous post, when someone anti-gay slanders "the gays" publicly and all they know are a few outwardly obvious & vocal gay men & women and not the greater population of us, it's risky as one never knows who the rest of "the gays" really are in society and who all they are slandering (even members of their family perhaps), and in turn if someone slanders another group - such as Christians in this example - you know those that again are vocal & obvious but not the other many cool, tolerant people that are Christian, the Christians who strongly support equaliry and all the gay men and women that are deeply Christian, whom your comments unfortunately collectively malign. Sometimes when we lash out at a group that we feel disrespected by, we can end up showing an equal level of disrespect in return and not even notice. Only strengthens the resolve of the other "side", and gives them fuel to fire back with. Hope that answers your question. With that, I'll bring this subject to an end for me in this thread.)
Posted by Jeff S on 08/17/2009 @ 08:15PM PT
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Well, since none of the Christians I know, and care very deeply for - have ever burned a gay person at the stake. So they don't apply to your feeble example.
As for the "context" of this "Sub Thread"... it is clearly a response to the comments before it. Or did you think that the idea of "CHANGE" included the constant repeating of the same comments?
I have all the respect in the world for ANY person who can recognize our rights to share different opinions. To understand that some things, even when we don't agree with them - SERIOUSLY ARE OK to recognize as a valuable piece of our incredibly complex society.
We ALL have the right to our opinions, and we all have a right to express them. Your accusation of my animosity toward Christians seems to be ill found. At no point in time did I say ANYTHING which generalized the behavior of, or my opinion of, anyone. Perhaps you should read more carefully. I specifically stated that my references were of behavior that is historically fact. My criticism is only directed at those events and persons. To assume I meant otherwise, is unfounded.
Posted by Stacy Green on 08/17/2009 @ 10:20PM PT
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does or doesn't everybody get an e-mail who posted on this story? I put a question out there for the gay community asking if they concur on the efficacy of boycotts? this is an advocacy blog- don't sit their with your thumbs up your behinds.
Andrew, saw in your profile the mention of John Lennon. Are you familiar with this song? Later, assuming I get a response from one, that's all I need, one person, I'll show you a neat trick about the big time blog "the daily kos"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_l6XK4mHho&feature=fvw
Posted by Gary Stein on 08/18/2009 @ 01:47PM PT
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Amen. Case closed.
What about boycotting as an effective weapon.
p.s. just by coincidence I tuned into my PBS TV channel last night halfway through the movie Elmer Gantry. Seen it already so no big deal. Some of these movies the older you get the better they are. not all of them. as a 20 something years ago I didn't rate From Here to Eternity that high, but as a 53 year old holy shit, is it a good movie.
Posted by Gary Stein on 08/16/2009 @ 07:49PM PT
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It's great to see how well online advocacy worked in this case. Good job getting this missue out there Michael!
Posted by Andrew Heugel on 08/17/2009 @ 02:51PM PT
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