The Wheels are Turning to Repeal "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"
Published December 16, 2008 @ 12:27PM PT
The "Will he or won't he repeal Don't Ask, Don't Tell?" question is one of the biggest LGBT issues facing the new Obama administration. President-Elect Obama has made it clear he disagrees with the discriminatory policy that bans openly gay and lesbian soldiers from serving in the military. But does he have enough leverage to repeal this policy in his first term?
To go "behind the music" on this issue, so to speak, it looks like the wheels are spinning to do away with "Don't Ask, Don't Tell". Admiral Michael Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, has started to have conversations with military officials about a possible repeal of the ban, noting that Obama has pledged to address the issue. It's unclear how far along these talks have gone, though the Times today points out that friends of Mullen have indicated that he is beginning to think about the logistical issues behind overturning the ban on gay and lesbian servicemembers.
Earlier this summer, Obama had this to say about his desire to overturn "Don't Ask, Don't Tell":
I think there's increasing recognition within the Armed Forces that ['Don't Ask'] is a counterproductive strategy...we're spending large sums of money to kick highly qualified gays or lesbians out of the military, some of whom possess specialties like Arab-language capabilities that we desperately need. That doesn't make us more safe, and what I want are members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff who are making decisions based on what strengthens our military and what is going to make us safer, not ideology.
"That doesn't make us more safe." Isn't that the money line right there? Let's hope that line carries water with the high level military officials that Admiral Mullen is talking to.
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Comments (24)
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Michael is the Communications Director for the Human Rights Program at Harvard Law School, and previously was Communications Director for Pax Christi USA, a progressive Catholic human rights organization.
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I don't think gay men and women should be allowed to serve in the Armed forces. The military is not a place for gay men and women. It corrupts the way the military functions. Imagine 2 straight soldiers, and 2 gay soldiers working on a tank together. It wouldn't work. I'm in the military, I don't think it's right.
Posted by Jessica Gates on 12/16/2008 @ 03:55PM PT
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I'm also in the military and I'm sure you've worked unknowningly next to a gay man or lesbian woman. It doesn't matter and does not effect the mission. Discrimination will destory our military's missions.
Posted by Heather Lantz-Skidgel on 10/01/2009 @ 10:41AM PT
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Hi Jessica,
Thanks for the comment. Actually, it's fairly easy for me to imagine 2 straight soldiers and 2 gay soldiers serving simultaneously with each other. That's because numerous countries already allow gays and lesbians to serve side by side, including 22 of our allies in Afghanistan and Iraq. Full gay and lesbian integration into these militaries hasn't harmed performance one bit - in fact, it's only enhanced the security of those forces.
Thanks for your note!
-Mike
Posted by Michael Jones on 12/16/2008 @ 04:27PM PT
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Jessica -
You have been serving with gay men and lesbian women for the entirety of your service. I am a retired lieutenant colonel in the Chaplain's Corps, and there are active duty officers, NCO's and enlisted soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen doing a patriotic job regardless of MOS or AFSC.
There was a time when men had gynecological menstrual
reasons why they did not want women serving in combat. In WWII, women and all black Americans had to serve peripherally.
I have known WWII gay veterans, Korean gay veterans, and Nam vets as well as those in Iraq I and II. My father, a commanding officer during WWII and Korea, had pilots in his command who were gay.
Like the women who can now serve in combat, and a woman actually receive the rank of O-10 (four stars) last month, and President Truman - despite the implied racism - integrated the services.
Jessica....if four soldiers are working on a tank together, and one is black and one is gay and there is a problem....the UCMJ will handle the issue just fine.
Oh, thank you for your service. Now stop denying it to others who love their country in the same way.
Posted by A B on 12/16/2008 @ 04:28PM PT
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I think it's absurd that you would think that personal expression has a place in the military...fighting for our country is not about what you do when the work day is over, it's not about your wife, your significant other, life partner, whatever you want to call it. It's about our COUNTRY, the Military is not a club that is getting members and collecting dues, it's not freedom of expression; you are there fighting so that we protect others rights, so they can walk around with a pink ribbon on their shoulder, so they can have a civil union, marriage, what have you. Don't lose sight of why we're here, what we're doing, and why we have the freedoms we do. We didn't get them by sitting back waiting for someone to give us rights, we took them and we protect them.
Don't talk about your sexuality, where your family is from, what church you go to....etc, it's about the greater good of our Country, and those that sign up for the privilege of serving our Country know that. For the rest of you, look at the bigger picture.
P.S. A pink ribbon on your shoulder during war will get you shot.
Posted by mrs baker on 12/16/2008 @ 04:40PM PT
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Mrs. Baker -
Passive homophobia coupled with insulting the service of gay men and lesbian women in many of our nation's conflicts, is beyond the "absurdity" that informed your particular reply.
Rather than engage in justifiable anger, I will merely pray that you become informed and aware about the plurality of individuals who love this country deeply, and not only those who share your right wing views on patriotism.
Posted by A B on 12/16/2008 @ 05:06PM PT
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I feel that the military is a job just like any other, which means to discriminate against someone because of sexual orientation is WRONG.
Posted by Amy Martinez on 12/16/2008 @ 07:00PM PT
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they dont discriminate(you sign it away)they allow it but dont support individual exspression of religion,sexuality,nationality, or any of your bill of rights, YOU SIGN ALL THAT AWAY AND BECOME A SINGLE LEAN MEAN FIGHTING MACHINE, AN ARMY OF ONE! sorry for the pun but you mistaken mrs baker she supports any one in the military it is a dying perfession, and needs all the help it can get,BUT DIFFERENCES OF OPINION DONT BELONG IN THE MILITARY ONLY RANKS
DONT ASK DONT TELL BECAUSE THEY DONT GIVE A CRAP!
IF ANYTHING THEY ARE PROTECTING YOU FROM ADDITIONAL HAZING!
Posted by rev baker aka rev420 on 12/16/2008 @ 07:11PM PT
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I believe as most people my age, that if these men and women can give up their lives, then they sure should be allowed in the total service and not hide the fact they are gay.
I am opposed to same sex marriage but feel strongly about gays serving in the services out in the open.
fmfirefighter@gmail.com
Posted by Donald manhal on 12/16/2008 @ 08:20PM PT
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Serving your country is a right, and if a draft is ever used again, I'm sure there will be plenty of straight people acting like Klinger to get out of service.
Posted by Lisa Smolen on 12/16/2008 @ 09:42PM PT
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Better let this one alone, if you get to serve openly you can never go into battle because you will be shot in the back, If you make the choice to be gay, thats up to you, but don't try to rub your sin in my face, and yes it is a sin, and it is a choice.
Posted by Ronald Jackson Sr. on 12/16/2008 @ 09:45PM PT
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mr or mrs baker-
President Harry Truman - during an election year that almost saw his defeat - integrated the Armed Forces. The racists, and yes, the Right Wing Religionist bigots, told him, a devout Southern Baptist, that God did not want the integration of the races anywhere.
Women were allowed in combat rolls after the last gynecological and menstruation issues in foxholes were dispelled.
There are many reasons why racism and bigotry exist, and homophobia is only the last such issue this nation must mature as well.
When did you "choose" to be heterosexual, Ronald Jackson? The nation is not responsible for your bigotry or your arrogant ignorance.
Posted by A B on 12/16/2008 @ 11:53PM PT
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Mr. Manhal - just extend your reasoning and say to yourself again.....if they can die for their country, then they can have all the equality of justice under law this nation provides to all men and women.
You see, President Truman opened the door in 1948, for the ability of black men or women to serve and then, in 1964 to vote and in 1967 to marry anyone they pleased legally.
You are evolving, evolve some more.
Posted by A B on 12/16/2008 @ 11:56PM PT
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Last year, my spouse's first cousin, a field grade officer in the Canadian Armed Forces, with three tours in Afghanistan, married his partner, a neurosurgeon, on the military base there.
You see, all posting homophobes, the rest of the industrialised and civilised world is light years ahead of the United States. What is sad is that for the last several decades, the cultural export has been the Right Wing theocratic and secular neoconservative perspective.
The US was known as a nation proud of its intellectuals, and its Ivy League institutions, and its musical contribution, jazz. Today, we are known for our anti-intellectualism, our ignorance with full blown arrogance. We have gone from Edward R. Morrow to Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity.
However, we have an opportunity to at least alter, if not change this perceptive reality in a short month......when the neocons - despite their last minute mischievous regulations - will be out of power. Theocratic fascism might begin to wane.
HAPPY DAYS CAN BE HERE AGAIN. I WILL THEN REJOICE IN HOPE.
Posted by A B on 12/17/2008 @ 04:51AM PT
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Hey Ray- I'm not in anyway saying that gays should not be allowed to serve, I'm saying that you being gay or straight has NOTHING to do with serving. It is an added issue that, yes sad to say, in our day and age where homophobia is an issue, because there are ignorant people, protect yourself and your friends. Is it right? No absolutly not, but it happens, and if you are so close minded that you don't see that, I don't know what to tell you.
This is just one case out of hundreds of what happend to a young 19yr old that let his fellow soldiers know he was gay.
http://www.ebar.com/news/article.php?sec=news&article=457
Posted by mrs baker on 12/17/2008 @ 07:37AM PT
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Just to clarify, I am not a homophobe. I have a gay brother, and a gay uncle. I know that there are gay men and women in the military, I've trained beside them. I just don't think it should be acknowledged openly. It's understandable that race has been integrated into the military service. After all, America was founded on diversity, but sexuality??? Just expressing how I feel..
Posted by Jessica Gates on 12/17/2008 @ 07:48AM PT
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I am an old chappie....and could provide you with anecdotes that pale by comparison.
I also knew chappies, retired decades before I retired, who remembered what happened after 1948 when African Americans were integrated into "all white army" units.
The Uniform Code of Military Justice addresses these matters. Blacks did not stop integrating...and officers did not stop breaking the glass ceiling to general officer or flagship ranks. Colin Powell happened because many bloodied noses and worse occurred after 1948.
In our voluntary army, we have lowered entry standards. We have high school dropouts and men and women with low level felonies. Now imagine the college graduate gay officer, or the gay enlisted person who will serve his country, but with discretion will serve, and determine how much he can reveal, but will not be dishonorably discharged for conduct permitted heterosexual soldiers.
The LGBT community has an organization of active and retired officers, NCO and enlisted men.....in theatre veterans of WWII, Korea and Vietnam as well as the Middle East wars of twelve years ago and present tense. There are generals and admirals who are retired and belong to this organization.
DADT will be eventually repealed. President Obama would sign it.
Posted by A B on 12/17/2008 @ 07:50AM PT
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I am an old chappie....and could provide you with anecdotes that pale by comparison.
I also knew chappies, retired decades before I retired, who remembered what happened after 1948 when African Americans were integrated into "all white army" units.
The Uniform Code of Military Justice addresses these matters. Blacks did not stop integrating...and officers did not stop breaking the glass ceiling to general officer or flagship ranks. Colin Powell happened because many bloodied noses and worse occurred after 1948.
In our voluntary army, we have lowered entry standards. We have high school dropouts and men and women with low level felonies. Now imagine the college graduate gay officer, or the gay enlisted person who will serve his country, but with discretion will serve, and determine how much he can reveal, but will not be dishonorably discharged for conduct permitted heterosexual soldiers.
The LGBT community has an organization of active and retired officers, NCO and enlisted men.....in theatre veterans of WWII, Korea and Vietnam as well as the Middle East wars of twelve years ago and present tense. There are generals and admirals who are retired and belong to this organization.
DADT will be eventually repealed. President Obama would sign it.
Posted by A B on 12/17/2008 @ 07:50AM PT
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Jessica - I am sure that you truly believe that your words do not describe homophobic conduct. I would wonder what your brother and uncle would feel about this issue?
While on active duty, I knew a true Southerner field grade officer. The major was a graduate of the University of Virginia and had his master's degree from Ole Miss. He came from a planter family....and was raised with a "mammy" - an African American wet nurse and nanny who raised him in the antebellum home.
I was his chappie, and incidentally a clergyman from his Christian denomination. Ironically, I was there to observe his reaction to the death of both his grandmother and his "mammy". If he had a "stiff upper lip" upon the former's death, he had inconsolable tears for his "mammy". He was distraught in ways that you might observe upon the loss of a mother or spouse.
Yet, the man was a racist. He was careful and he never crossed the line. He was a "gentleman". Yet, it was not difficult for this New England Yankee to recognize his true feelings with officers, NCO or soldiers alike.
Jessica, I pray that your views evolve. Again, I believe that you truly love your brother and uncle.
Posted by A B on 12/17/2008 @ 08:48AM PT
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i just love america for its fredom of speech, and gods gift of choice and free will
i dont have a problem with any thing as long as your actions dont intrude on others rights
POWER TO THE PEOPLE
ALL GOOD PEOPLE
DONT TREAD ON ME AND I WONT TREAD ON YOU
Posted by rev baker aka rev420 on 12/17/2008 @ 10:12AM PT
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In the United States of America, the Founding Fathers created three co-equal branches of government.
It charged the US Judicial Branch to assure all citizens that a minority class would not lose rights from the majority class that the majority would retain at the expense of the minority's right to those same rights.
I have just defined our struggle for civil rights in the American tradition, and my family has fought for this land since before the Revolutionary War, and since the signing of the Mayflower Compact of the MA Bay Colony off my native Plymouth, MA.
Posted by A B on 12/17/2008 @ 10:53AM PT
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In my hometown, there is a rock, within a monument with the stencil within the stone "1620" where four of my ancestors - men and women - who were English religious dissenters from the Church of England (LOL) - and there is a church community where they worshipped and where I grew up in the faith.
Interestingly, our experiment in the Enlightenment has been short circuited by literal fundamentalism and Dominionist Theocrats who want to create an Established Church...the very reason why my ancestors came and why the Revolutionary War founders were not willing to make the Episcopal Church (Anglican) or the Unitarian Church or any other Deistic system the theocracy of the land.
DOMA and DADT and Interracial Marriage Bans were all laws written by these modern-day Fundamentalist Theocrats whose politics is reactionary Right Wing.
Posted by A B on 12/17/2008 @ 11:26AM PT
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My brother probably wouldn't care what I think. He resents me for joining the army and says I took the easy way out. While he's at home mooching off my parents, crashing their cars, staying out all night, going out with guys that pay for everything, and coping with HIV. If they allow gay men and women to serve OPENLY in the militay, I would challenge him to join. But I already know the outcome and he would just keep doing what he's doing. Trust me, I try to encourage him to do better and to stop disrespecting my parents, but because I'm the little sister, and the youngest in the family, my advice is a crock of sh**.
A lot of the responses posted, regarding my comment, seemed like people were trying to explain how racism and integration can compare to homosexuality. They don't compare. People's beliefs outside of the two, do compare. Of course, there are still racists in the army, who hide their true beliefs well. Yes there are UCMJ actions that can be taken against those who disrespect anyone of color, religion, race, etc..As of now, there are no regulations that protect homosexuals other than the "don't ask, don't tell policy." Even if UCMJ regulations are written up to protect gay men and women in the military, it still won't stop other people from harassing them, or abusing them.
As far as religion is involved. GAY = SIN. It is also a choice. What I think: If you're gay, do what you do. But don't rub your sexuality in my face. Expecially in the military.
Don't get mad, don't judge me, and if you are, do it righteously.
Posted by Jessica Gates on 12/18/2008 @ 06:51AM PT
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you ask people not to judge you, while you say gay = sin.... who are you to judge others actions... and since when did you choose to be straight? People are who they are.
Posted by Heather Lantz-Skidgel on 10/01/2009 @ 10:48AM PT
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