The Ghost of Anita Bryant in Kalamazoo?

"Glenn doesn't give an example of how this is true, of course."

Hi Michael,

Actually, I provided the Kalamazoo Gazette reporter multiple examples, which she failed to report.

Given your location and your Catholic affiliation, you yourself should have been able to post one of the best examples:

Catholic Charities in Boston being given an ultimatum under the Massachusetts "gay rights" law: either refer children to homosexual couples for adoption, which the Vatican describes as doing "moral violence" to children, or be forced to abandon its century-old adoption referral service altogether (which had previously comprised 40 percent of all adoption referrals in the city). To their credit, Catholic Charities refused to be compelled by law to violate its religious convictions.

Or the Scout council under Philadelphia's "gay rights" ordinance being evicted from offices they've occupied in a city park for 80 years, because they choose as a matter of policy not to allow adult men involved in homosexual activity to serve as Scoutmasters.

Or city employees in Ann Arbor being prohibited under that city's "gay rights" ordinance from donating to the United Way through their city payroll deduction plan. Why? Because United Way financially supported local Boy Scout troops.

Or the president of the police officers' union in Ann Arbor being fired for allegedly violating the ordinance. His offense: asking a candidate for police chief at a public forum if she supported the "gay rights" agenda.

Or the Salvation Army being prohibited under Cook County, Illinois's "gay rights" ordinance from bidding on contracts to provide services to the poor, because they don't -- as a matter of religious conviction -- allow homosexual clergy.

Multiple such examples of so-called "gay rights" ordinances being used to discrminate against organizations which don't endorse homosexual activity or the political movement which promotes it.

In contrast, we've challenged homosexual activist groups in Michigan over the last decade to provide any example -- even one -- of an individual being denied employment, housing, or service in a public accommodation based on what kind of sex they have at home. To date, they've been unable to provide even one instance anywhere, any time, in a state of 10 million people, over the course of ten years. Obviously, such ordinances are nothing more than political propaganda statements, "solutions" in search of a non-existent problem.

For whatever it's worth, the Vatican in 1992 issued an instruction to Catholic bishops opposing such laws, authored by then Cardinal Ratzinger (now Pope): http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFHOMOL.HTM

And rejecting these ordinances in Michigan is not a relic of the 70's. Voters in Lansing (1995), Royal Oak (2001), and most recently Hamtramck (2008) have done so, though the Lansing City Council later reimposed that city's law despite the people's vote.

Posted by Gary Glenn on 12/12/2008 @ 10:45AM PT
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Gary,

Of course, all of your "examples" fail to address the most important issue -- that all those organizations accepted public financing or below market payments subsidized by the public, but then refused to abide by public laws which outlawed discrimination against gays and lesbians. For example, Catholic Charities in Massachusetts was not forced to place children with gay parents in the same way that it was not forced to accept public money. But, under our Constitutional scheme, if you accept public money, you accept the laws under which that money is made available -- all laws. Thus, Catholic Charities had a choice, and they chose to stop services. (Mormon adoption charities (who do not place children with gay couples) still operate successfully in Massachusetts and do not take public money).As to the numerous Boy Scouts cases, this organization would be given use of public lands for derisory rates (such as $1 a year) while other organization would be forced to pay market rate for the same land. Again, the Scouts were not forced to admit gays, however, like Catholic Charities, they could not have their cake and eat it. If you want to discriminate in violation of public laws, then you lose your public benefits and get treated like everyone else. If the Scouts want the use of public land, they can just pay for it like everybody else or go home.Try telling the truth some times Gary -- it will set you free.

Posted by Rex Glensy on 12/12/2008 @ 01:42PM PT
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Thanks for the advice, Rex, but I'm already free, and in all the verbiage you expended, you failed to note any instance in which I didn't tell the truth.

You did, however, confirm that so-called "gay rights" laws have a proven track record of being used to discriminate against and penalize individuals and organizations that take a stand regarding the homosexual agenda diverse from your own. While rarely -- if ever -- actually being invoked in response to allegations of "discrimination" against individuals on the basis of what kind of sex they engage in.

As I said, a discriminatory "solution" in search of a problem.

Posted by Gary Glenn on 12/12/2008 @ 02:02PM PT
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First of all, please, please, go to the Homelessness thread and see the woeful problems about the hundreds of thousands of teenage youth who are homeless and are prey to the pimps and drug peddlers. We must protect our children....especially when the theocrats are ready to verbally abuse them and the end result is often tragic.

A bright note is that there are some programs and PFLAG and others work hard, but there are still not enough non-profits and enough same-sex couples willing to foster some of these teens.

What a segue to Anita Bryant. I remember the Milk era and pre-AIDS....my spouse and I were together for two years in 1978, and we worked hard to defeat Anita Bryant. I STILL do not drink Florida Orange Juice....thirty years later...and neither does he.I saw a Photo of Bryant at age 68. She divorced her first husband in 1980, and some had indicated that he was bisexual. Both she and Pat Boone are in my chamber of horrors.

Posted by A B on 12/12/2008 @ 02:51PM PT
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Mr. Glenn:

Rex addressed every one of the points you raised. I find your ad hominem reply disingenuous and arrogantly homophobic.

Posted by A B on 12/12/2008 @ 06:06PM PT
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Gary,

I forgive you for you know not of what you speak. As someone who worked for legal aid organizations who would assist people discriminated against on the basis of their sexual orientation in California I can tell you from first hand experience that these claims are not rare -- indeed, they are both frequent and underreported. And the effect that they have on people being discriminated against is devastating -- I often became a grief counselor as well as lawyer in these situations.If you want the facts just click on this link (or copy and paste): http://www.law.ucla.edu/williamsinstitute/pdf/PACR.pdfIt shows that in those states where protections exist, claims for discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation are filed in frequency equal or superior to claims based on gender. Hardly rare! (For those states that do not have those protections, one can only imagine how bad the situation is.)Considering that you believe there is no problem, I guess the facts will not really move you. But you know, facts are stubborn, and they tend to provide a nice counterpoint to those who bloviate without any basis in reality.

Peace.

Posted by Rex Glensy on 12/13/2008 @ 12:00AM PT
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Hi Rex,

It has been my experience as clergy for the last forty years that the saying about explanations being either unnecessary or will never suffice apply here in spades.

I also read the "underbelly" code that it is more than ignorance with a heavy dose of arrogance....it is the mistaken belief that they hold the "moral high ground."

In obtaining full Canadian federal recognition, the Anglican Church of Canada and the United Church of Canada - the latter being the largest Protestant denomination in Canada - stood up against the spiritual violence of both fundamentalist Protestants and US imports like Robertson and Dobson, and the Roman Catholic Church

I have sent you a compliment...I like lawyers....my grandfathers, my brother, my uncles etc....made the law defend the innocent and the powerless.

Posted by A B on 12/13/2008 @ 05:48AM PT
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If you do nothing else this Sunday, take a look at www.soulforce.org and look at the front page featured video" DON'T TELL ME WHO TO LOVE.....and bring some tissues.

Posted by A B on 12/14/2008 @ 08:55AM PT
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If you do nothing else this Sunday, take a look at www.soulforce.org and look at the front page featured video" DON'T TELL ME WHO TO LOVE.....and bring some tissues.

Posted by A B on 12/14/2008 @ 08:55AM PT
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