The Effect of Gay Marriage on Gay Kids
Published October 08, 2009 @ 12:17PM PT
What does the anti-gay rhetoric coming out of forces who fight gay marriage say to LGBT kids?
It's an excellent question. We see anti-gay leaders in Maine saying that same-sex marriage will pollute public schools and teach children immorality. We see anti-gay activists in Washington saying that domestic partnerships will threaten the family and force children to learn about debauchery. We see crazy bishops in D.C. blast same-sex marriage as something detrimental to children in the District.
What do all of these messages combined tell LGBT kids? According to Patrick James over at GOOD Magazine, it reinforces negative stereotypes that could leave gay kids feeling isolated, alone, and unable to strive for some very basic things -- a long-term relationship, kids, a family, etc. It also reinforces the 1950s narrative that anyone with an L, G, B or T describing their sexual orientation can't be virtuous -- a terribly destructive message to be sending to a 12-year-old.
James writes, "Traditionally, [an LGBT] young person is told—whether explicitly or tacitly, by means of our societal mechanisms—that he or she will have no spouse, no children, and no chance to enter into a lifelong social contract with another person. The result is a relegation to isolation."
It's a pretty common sense leap. But it's a fact not worth forgetting about. Perhaps the biggest victims in legislative efforts or ballot measures that kill marriage rights for LGBT people are gay kids.
James concludes, "in a world that celebrates the institution, the perceptive distance between being gay and virtuous collapses, and a young person can look forward to a life of commitment, father- or motherhood, and inclusion in the shared experience that binds us as a people."
Marriage isn't for all people. But it shouldn't be denied to a group of people, either. Not in Maine. Not in Washington state. Not in the District of Columbia. Etc., etc. The effects of doing so are just too damn destructive.
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Comments (47)
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Michael is the Communications Director for the Human Rights Program at Harvard Law School, and previously was Communications Director for Pax Christi USA, a progressive Catholic human rights organization.
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I agree...
I grew up being told constantly that I was worthless...
And Im not even gay...So I can just imagine how gay kids must feel.
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 10/08/2009 @ 12:44PM PT
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Same-sex marriage is a very important right that is obligated to be availible in every state of the United States. Intolerant conservatives spew nonsense when it comes to same-sex marriage and adoption by gay or lesbian couples. However, what is known is that the truth is with the LGBT rights activists because intolerant conservatives don't have credible reasons against the important right of same-sex marriage and adoption by LGBT couples.
Posted by Edwin Bonilla on 10/08/2009 @ 01:47PM PT
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Sadly, it seems there are too many people still reading their out-of-date Bibles, (not suggesting that there is one that is up-to-date). The fact that Homosexuality is "wrong" is a long-over, dried up argument despite what people believe. The matter now is the right wing are simply fighting the inevitable.
"... will pollute schools and teach children immorality". Huh? They are fooling themselves if they think schools aren't polluted already. And in terms of immorality, I wonder if they have ever read the Old Testament? That's immorality.
"...will threaten the family and force children to learn about debauchery" Umm, here are some interesting stats:
American teenagers engage in about as much sex as teenagers in the rest of the developed world BUT American girls are four to five times more likely to become pregnant, have a baby, or to get an abortion. (From M. Goldberg)
Young Americans are also far more likely to be infected by HIV and other sexually transmitted diseases. The rate of Gonorrhea among American teens is seventy (yes, that's 70) times higher than it is among their peers in the Netherlands and France. (From N. D. Kristof)
Do they really think that stopping gay marriage is going to further these numbers? No, of course they don't. Maybe the FACT that America's teenagers are ALREADY learning about debauchery has something to do with the fact that 30% of Americas sex education programs teach abstinence only - a fine enough reason for a teen to go out and have sex.
"...crazy Bishops in DC blast same sex marriage" Yes, and sadly because they never learned to think for themselves at a young age they grew up suppressing their own sexual feelings and in turn end up doing shit like this: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2009/10/01/ns-lahey-charged-sydney.html
It's time that Religious people accept the FACT that children are intelligent, intuitive beings (often much more than older people) and that seeing homosexuality has no "negative" effect on them. In fact, it's quite the opposite. It open's their eyes and allows them to be more accepting of others and themselves.
Posted by Nathan Michael Marcuzzi on 10/08/2009 @ 01:49PM PT
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Now that you bring up the whole "dated material" argument regarding the Bible. I can one-up you on that!
Guess what the "conservatives" are up to now! They are RE-WRITING the "word of God." No way, you say, right? Check it out! http://conservapedia.com/Conservative_Bible
The Bible is being rewritten AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh, and what version of the Bible are they pulling from? The Old Queen James version!
Posted by Dave Hershey on 10/08/2009 @ 04:28PM PT
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Well said mr. marcuzzi and those statistics you cited are far scarier than any of the crap that the bible thumpers can come up with...Sad to say, theyre also true.
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 10/08/2009 @ 05:34PM PT
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Good goddess mr. hershey...
Wonder what theyre gonna add this time ?
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 10/08/2009 @ 05:37PM PT
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Thomas, Techbear did a write up about it over at Pam's House Blend the other day.
Here are the guidelines the project want people to follow when "correcting" the "Word of Gawd."
And ya, I still think these people are going to be scared sh*tless when they find out that God is actually a Jewish Black Lesbian in a wheelchair (in the shape of a thrown that is. /snark off)
Posted by Dave Hershey on 10/08/2009 @ 09:32PM PT
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That wouldnt surprise me one bit mr. hershey.
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 10/10/2009 @ 03:58AM PT
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I think their rewrite is in direct reply to this:
http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/index.html
You will note, in the passages cited on these pages, that there are mirrored passages in every current Bible printed today.
So...yeah...I wonder what treatment they will give The Last Supper...as Jesus Christ meant that to be illuatrative as an inclusionary ritual, not an exclusionary rite of passage.
Posted by Maxine Mesko on 10/12/2009 @ 04:39PM PT
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i think that you are all right. even about the whole bible thing...totaly on that
Posted by Travis Leland on 10/14/2009 @ 01:50PM PT
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I think everyone's missing the fact that gay teens aren't growing up in the same world we did. Teens now are old enough to remember Queer Eye, Will and Grace, and Ellen even if they weren't old enough to watch. They have more gay characters in mainstream shows than ever before and coming of age novels written specifically for them. It's difficult to exist in the US right now without seeing examples of functional gay couples, even if your local community disapproves.
Beyond that, gay marriage is not going to be what most teens notice. To find things that truly affect gay teens we should be looking at bullying, the use of homophobic slurs, and bans on same-sex dates to school dances. Being allowed to marry your high school sweetheart isn't much of a consolation when you still can't go to prom together.
Posted by Tobias Fangor on 10/08/2009 @ 02:25PM PT
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Great points, Tobias. I think you're right on when you emphasize the impact of bullying. I still think that there's an argument that these ballot measures addressing marriage trickle down to LGBT youth (especially teens). I seem to remember a Marriage Equality USA report in the wake of Prop 8's passage that talked about how detrimental Prop 8 was to young people -- many of whom experienced harrasment or taunting after 8 passed.
Posted by Michael Jones on 10/08/2009 @ 02:56PM PT
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I also agree with you two. because im a bisexual teenager. in 16 years old. i dont no if my school ban's gay couples to dances but if they did i would have a really big problem. people should be able to go with anybody they please and also marry anybody they please. If two people like or love each other they should be able to date or get married without having to be bullied or isolated or discriminated. so of course i agree with you. lolz!!!
Posted by Destiny Long on 10/09/2009 @ 10:55AM PT
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"Traditionally, [an LGBT] young person is told—whether explicitly or tacitly, by means of our societal mechanisms—that he or she will have no spouse, no children, and no chance to enter into a lifelong social contract with another person. The result is a relegation to isolation."
-----
Isn't that the point of the religious reich (and yes I say reich because there is NOTHING right about them.) To shame people into oppression? Whether it be by society or by themselves. Seriously, isn't it? And what better way than to begin that process as early an age as possible.
I recall being forced to go to a church (and Xtian school) that constantly ranted about homosexuality, music (backward masking - whatever the hell that meant......ooooooo the whole "natas" is going to get you when you play Stairway to Heaven backward,) posters of a girl wearing a bikini top mix-matched the bottom half with her boyfriends so they were wearing the same shorts (yes shorts, they weren't wearing the bikini bottoms - real shorts.) Of course, this was around the time that the Republican Party was hi-jacked (early to mid 80's) by the religious reich.
Posted by Dave Hershey on 10/08/2009 @ 04:25PM PT
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I'm a Christan, and I'm straight - but never narrow.
I have my Bible. I also have notes tucked away in it.
Notes on context, and on other matters.
I may be a Christian, but I'm not one of "those" Christians.
You might want to be better armed with a few handy verses...
Here, for your convenience...the Right Wingnuts have a hard time arguing against their own Book:
http://www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/index.html
Posted by Maxine Mesko on 10/12/2009 @ 04:44PM PT
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Thank you miss mesko...
I just added that link to my list of ministry links.
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 10/12/2009 @ 09:22PM PT
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...Or, we can recognize that religious liberalism is not the answer to open-mindedness. Religious moderates simply keep the fire going for fundamentalist. For someone to say that they are religious but not illogical is extremely ironic.
One can re-write, re-construct, re-interpret the bible in as many ways as they like but it will not change the fact that the Bible is a completely obscure fiction and is totally unnecessary in living a good, moral - and in this case - homosexual life.
Moral disposition long precedes any writings/scripture.
Posted by Nathan Michael Marcuzzi on 10/12/2009 @ 10:59PM PT
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I work in electronics, with current technologies; my knowledge base in regards to sciences are pretty secure.
I also happen to be a Christian...mind you now, not one of "those" Christians, but a Christian, nonetheless.
Bible entries are crude, this is true; much of the scientific base knowledge we have today was largely unknown and unfathomable in the era in which the original Hebrew scrolls were written, and, even then, much of the historical content was written in the contexts of legends and symbols, myth and politics.
Still: there are fundamental basics to humanity, listed within the tomes, pertinent as ever to today as they were those hundreds of years after Christ's birth.
I felt and feel that Christianity is based on Jesus Christ's teachings.
Christ would not come back, wearing a Rolex, beating an outcast to bruise and blood, and scheduling an appointment with an accountant; he'd be feeding the masses, despite self-inflicted rationing, healing the sick despite lack of gold in the peoples' coffers, travelling to those in need despite the inhospitable environments.
Christians are intended to be "Christ-Like" - to emulate the open hearth, work hard at their trade, share with the unfortunate, and carry their burdens without qualms; "...do this, in rememberance of me..."
He shared what he knew to be his final meal with two who would betray him; one who would destroy him, the other who would deny him - amongst others who were his closest confidantes.
Many of today's "Christians" would do nothing of the sort; exclusionist and proprietary, performing rite and ritual without substance in full display.
"...they, too, shall have their reward..."
Maybe I'm weird, or maybe I've got some strain of autism in my DNA, but I'm pretty sure the exclusionist robber baron/inflammatory/barbed lashing style just doesn't strike me as "Christian".
...and I'm a Christian.
Posted by Maxine Mesko on 10/13/2009 @ 02:27AM PT
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Maxine,
I'll say this and nothing more (for the respect of others - this is not a blog on Religion/Belief).
It's clear to me that bringing up your religious orientation is a mild paroxysm of irritation to those who do not share your faith (i.e belief without evidence). I would argue that just because you work in current technology it does not mean that you are well versed in the scientific evidence regarding evolution and the probability that the "son of god" even existed, for that, there is no evidence.
And to reiterate what I have already said, those who think logically will recognize that we can be moral without faith. In this particular case it seems that your moral considerations are being hidden behind your religious attitude toward the topic of homosexuality which has no link to morality.
All the best.
Posted by Nathan Michael Marcuzzi on 10/13/2009 @ 01:24PM PT
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Mr. marcuzzi...
Im of the opinion that she's just getting sick and tired of her religion being lumped together with those who abuses it even as she is an ally of those who attack her religion.
Is that about right miss mesko ?
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 10/13/2009 @ 04:38PM PT
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One can be religious and bigoted or religious and be accepting of all people regarding of race, creed, disability, sexual orientation, etc. While some quote the Bible to back various bigoted views, there is nothing in the Bible that condemns homosexuality, but much that celebrates love.
At the same time, religion is unnecessary for "morality." The need for social rules, whether written or not is an evolutionary thing. For a community to survive, it is necessary to have laws regarding such offenses as stealing and doing others physical harm. We can even observe versions of these rules among the higher animals where one can observe such "human" behaviors as social reciprocity and altruism. These behaviors help a community and species to survive.
This said, I ask whether it's preferable for children to see a loving gay couple, or the hatred, social ostracism and violence that often comes with being bigoted against those who are different?
I hope that one day every one of us will celebrate the rainbow of diversity that is the coalescing world culture of our species.
Posted by Andrew Heugel on 10/13/2009 @ 05:08PM PT
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I like the points that Tobias makes regarding the bullying and teasing that LGBT teens have to face, due to their peers emulating their parents' behaviors. Where is the "Christian" compassion in this kind of teaching by the parents and behavior by their children?
Another bit of hypocrisy that is now going on is the religious right (or reich as Dave prefers to call it) condemning such theocracies, such as the one in Iran, of oppressing their citizens while they are engaging in the same behaviors regarding denying the LGBT community equal rights in such areas as marriage and being able to serve in the military without having to hide their sexuality in the closet.
Posted by Andrew Heugel on 10/08/2009 @ 05:26PM PT
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I agree mr. heugel but then...
The bible thumpers have always been hypocrites.
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 10/08/2009 @ 06:33PM PT
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look i never agreed with the whole accepting gays issue
i have a 4 year old son and the least thing i need is to have two grown men or woman kissing in his presence ....... its like every time i turn on my t.v. or go inside a store i gotta deal with men kissing men and woman kissing woman ... if anybody had common sense they would stop trying to protect gays and start protecting what is supposed to be humanity ... god forbid i have to see anymore young boys running around in girl's jeans or young girls wearing mens clothing ..it just doesnt seem right ... im old school and times were better before we started saying "hey its ok to be gay !"
Posted by ramon rivera on 10/08/2009 @ 07:21PM PT
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Oh poor poor dear. I'll just go hide back in my closet just to make you feel better.........
.........bullshit!
Posted by Dave Hershey on 10/08/2009 @ 09:21PM PT
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Do you have no respect for what other people feel Ramon? Using your own logic, any of us could request that you go get yourself a shotgun because your existence offends us.
I'm not going to argue about how much offense your life causes, although I personally feel bad for someone as narrow minded as you, but you do offend us.
You say that times were better before there was more equality. Better for you? It certainly wasn't better for us, having to hide in fear of persecution from people like you. I feel fully within my rights to tell you to go fuck yourself.
You talk about humanity, yet you know precious little about it. Granted that humanity is more of a concept and it changes from person to person, let alone cultures, but still. Gay people ARE human. If you took a sample of any of our DNA and matched it to yours, while not an exact match, it would prove that we are of the same species.
Clothing has nothing to do with anything. Boil it all down and clothing is nothing but fabric cut, sewed and stitched in certain patterns that are supposed to mean something.
In all honesty man, none of us really care that you have to deal with seeing us kiss. We all have to deal with you heteros kissing, groping each other, and other such displays of affection wherever we go. And I mean literally.
Speaking of seeing things wherever you go, where the hell do you live? I lived in toronto until recently and I don't think I ever saw men kissing men or women kissing women (barring the internet ;) of course). I don't think I need to remind anyone, but I will anyway. Canada is one of the most accepting countries there is. You can be pretty much anything and nobody will really care. So how is it that you see LGBT couples wherever you go, yet I, belonging to that group, have rarely seen them?
Seeing same-gender shows of affection will not make your son gay. It may make him a little more open minded and tolerant of other people, but in this world who cares about tolerance? Certainly not the people who are "in charge", and why should they?
Did you ever realize how much you sound like one of those racist southern people back when that issue was so much worse than it is today?
Still, I appreciate the fact that you didn't come in here like Joe the Mofo, screaming for blood and gay-bashing left and right indiscriminately. You still gay bashed, but you at least tried to do so politely, and that allows me to believe there is hope for you as a person. Your closed mind may one day be opened, and you may believe in equality at some undefined turning point in history. I should probably add that nobody will care about that any more than they do about your homophobic opinion (we'll still congratulate you, and you get prop-points).
Posted by Paul Hockhousen on 10/09/2009 @ 06:15AM PT
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fuck you personally if your son turns out gay thats not our fault asswipe.
Posted by Destiny Long on 10/09/2009 @ 10:56AM PT
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i most definatly agree with you!!!!lolz!!he can go fuck himself all he pleases.
Posted by Destiny Long on 10/09/2009 @ 10:59AM PT
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Mr. rivera...
Your such a hypocrite.
How do you think homosexual kids feel when they see boys kissing girls and girls kissing boys out in public while knowing that if they tried to do the same with their loved ones...Theyd get the shit kicked out of them.
Also, kids that age usually dont even think about it unless their parent(s) make it an issue.
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 10/10/2009 @ 04:01AM PT
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Ramon, if that is the biggest worry you have, then you must live in a world different from that of the rest of us. Actually if any of your children are LGBTQ, then that is what they are--nothing you can do about that except to make their lives miserable. Is that what you would prefer? To make someone's life miserable over something that is not a choice?
What is so wrong with your son seeing two men or two women sharing a kiss? I would much rather my child see love and tolerance in the world than the violence, brutality and hatred that so permeates our culture.
This is the 21st Century--LGBTQ people are not going to go away or hide in a closet simply because you do not approve of them. Compared to some of the disgusting heterosexual public dispays of affection I have been forced to witness, a same sex couple hugging and kissing seems absolutely sweet. You want straights only to have the right to be affectionate in public. Well, the time is coming when more LGBTQ couples feel free to hold hands and even (*gasp!*) kiss. Sorry that you feel that one sector of society should hide in a closet to make sure that your comfort zone is not disturbed.
Posted by Ioan Lightoller on 10/08/2009 @ 08:54PM PT
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Amen! It is absolutely amazing to me that people have zero problem with to teenagers (provided they are hetero) practically going at it on the grass in a park, but god forbid two men or two women hold hands.
This whole "boys in girls jeans?" HUH? This person needs to realize that FASHION changes by the season. And MANY guys (mostly skaters) are wearing the tight tight jeans, I mean SUPER SKINNY jeans, and 99% of these guys are gasp, straight.
God forbid ANY of this person's children grow up to find that they are LGBT. It would be like growing up in my mother and father's household, where you were told you were going to burn in hell at every turn.
Posted by Dave Hershey on 10/08/2009 @ 09:26PM PT
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You got THAT right, David! My mom finally realised I was gay and would only be happy with someone of my own gender but growing up I was made to feel like crap.
I earnestly pray that none of this individual's children turn out to be LGTQ--what a hell on earth for someone to have to endure!
Posted by Ioan Lightoller on 10/08/2009 @ 10:10PM PT
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One of my gay friends is divorced and has children and they are both well adjusted children. Seeing two people of the same sex kiss is not going to harm them.
Posted by Martin Martinez on 10/09/2009 @ 03:57AM PT
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I have a 10 year old son, that I know isn't gay. When he read the title of Mr. Jones article, "All I want for Christmas is Gay Marriage in D.C." he laughed, and began singing it to the tune of, "All I want for Christmas is my Two Front Teeth." I only point this out, because our personal and political views are easily passed along to our children.
If your religious views conflict with homosexuality, that's fine. But you should still be pointing out to your children, the injustices the LGBT community faces on a daily basis.
Posted by L.S. hope on 10/09/2009 @ 01:15PM PT
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I like the message of tolerance and the innocence of kids from L.S. Hope. It's so tempting to respond to the bigotry and intolerance of the "right" with anger and hatred, but such emotions in the end are self destructive.
Yes, it's been a long road for we in the LGBT community, but I feel that while we should call intolerance and bigotry for what it is, we should not respond in kind. Instead, I prefer to respond with my own non-religious version of what Jesus allegedly said on the cross: "Forgive them Father, for they do not know."
Posted by Andrew Heugel on 10/09/2009 @ 02:13PM PT
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Thank you Mr. Heugal, but I want to point out that I'm not teaching "tolerance." I'm teaching, "Liberty and Justice for ALL!" Which is what you should be demanding.
Posted by L.S. hope on 10/09/2009 @ 02:42PM PT
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L.S. hope, I said that "we should call intolerance and bigotry for what it is," and thus by extension we should be demanding equal rights. We are part of the ongoing Civil Rights movement and need to continue demanding what should have been ours a long time ago.
But, I feel that the best way to dispel the ignorance and intolerance that still exists is by such things as positive media portrayals of the Gay community and individuals, and by the way we conduct our daily lives. Bit by bit we are winning over the middle ground of opinion this way and the tide of history is with us and all the other groups, such as people with disabilities, who still face discrimination.
We shall overcome...
Posted by Andrew Heugel on 10/09/2009 @ 03:37PM PT
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Could someone answer a question about gay mannerisms. Why do some gay men adopt exaggerated feminine gestures and lesbian women behave like men? I suppose that confounds me more than anything else. As a woman I certainly don't act like that.
I lived in Boston for years and witnessed the gay pride parades, of which the clothing and behavior was very offensive. Super tight shorts with private parts falling out, guys in girls clothes (drag queens).........etc. I just don't see how this can help the cause.
I don't care if you are drawn to the same sex, but quite frankly it's the behavior that's confounding. The older gays/lesbians didn't seem as angry and flamboyant, they were classier and worked at being accepted. Maybe because they had to hide, but everyone knew anyway.......
Whoever responds, understand one thing, I have three family members who are gay and I love them, so don't take this personally. They are still hyper-sensitive about their choice so I dare not ask them, yet........
Posted by Deborah H on 10/11/2009 @ 06:30AM PT
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Miss h.
Thank you for seeking knowledge and understanding rather than being willing to live without it...
The one thing I can tell you for sure, being heterosexual myself, is that no one chooses to be gay or straight...Its an innate trait thats determined at birth and discovered through puberty.
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 10/12/2009 @ 05:13AM PT
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Thomas, I realize I used the word "choice" which isn't a choice. Sorry...... I suppose I should have worded it as "they are hyper-sensitive about how others view them, including family." One is starting college, one is in his mid-fifties and one is retired. None of them seem to have accepted who they are, let alone feeling accepted by others.
Posted by Deborah H on 10/12/2009 @ 01:24PM PT
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Thats very sad miss h because as I stated in an earlier post...I know all too well what it is to be convinced that your worthless, even to the point of possibly being beyond redemption on that score and I can tell you that no worse a feeling exists...
No one no matter what their orientation should feel like that or be made to feel like that and I hope and pray that one day soon, your family is able to overcome such pain and misery so that they can learn to love and accept themselves as the normal folks they are.
Unfortunatly, I have no idea why folks act the way they do...
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 10/12/2009 @ 09:27PM PT
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While I am an angry person due to my mistreatment at the hands of religious individuals, the scars I bear are far to deep for forgiveness.
I am not flamboyant, nor would I ascertain that thought. Where I live there are quite a few gay people. What I notice is that there are far more straight people with feminine qualities than straight people. These are not people so repressive of their sexual orientation they try to be straight. These are straight people who are what we now call Metro-sexual.
In fact very few LGBT act on the false stereotypes that negatively pain them. Most of the time LGBT are gender neutral as documented by Dr. John Gottman. This can make some people think gay men are feminine, because of tone quality in their voice and their dress, and gay women seem masculine because they choose not to wear clothing that impart or stage female gender roles. However as I stated many LGBT do not "act" with over exaggerated feminist or masculinity and the idea that they do is a complete and utter misnomer.
There are many LGBT people around you, who, because of false stereotyping, you would never know are gay. There are many times when I get annoyed with people who question me when I tell them about my fiance Ruben. They say things like; "you are to straight to be gay," "you dont act or look gay," "you cant be gay you dont have the lisp and the feminine voice." These rebuttals are absolutely enraging.
As for the pride parades, besides just staring at the drag queens, the transgendered individuals, and those who like to "strut their stuff," did you pay attention to the many LGBT families, with kids that walked in the parade? Having been to many pride parades in person, I can assure you that the majority of people that participate are not dressing in drag and doing the hula, or people who are not only wearing their birthday suit but in fuchsia or neon blue. The majority are people there are no different than youself with their families participating in celebrating their ability to overcome the oppression and false stereotypes that are placed on them by a misinformed and willfully ignorant society. Unfortunatly if you only watch the parade through your TV it is quite obvious why the news only films the most outragous of the parade. It gets ratings and gives people who dont understand us a cheap laugh and a body to point a finger at.
Posted by Chris Marshall on 10/16/2009 @ 08:45PM PT
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While I wouldn't ever tell anyone how to live, as long as what they do doesn't hurt others, I don't feel comfortable being flamboyant and making a caricature of myself. I would rather be viewed as a person and for who I am.
I also am not comfortable with Gays using the Q word and am glad that not as many African Americans are using the N word. People with developmental disabilities are fighting to have the R word retired to the refuse pile of history, and maybe it's time for the Gay community to do the same with the Q word. Meanwhile, we should ask ourselves if the affected behaviors described by Deborah are still funny.
Posted by Andrew Heugel on 10/11/2009 @ 06:53AM PT
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Andrew, I too don't enjoy being flamboyant, but I also don't think it's my place to tell someone else not to be the person they are.
I don't know if I'm ready to give up the Q word. Because many within the community use it as a means to not only take back the word, but to use it in a manner to mean non-conforming or non-assimilation. Meaning they have no desire to "marry" assimilate into the mainstream.Think back ot the 1980's when the LGBT community at large used the term. It was used as a sense of solidarity when the AIDS crisis in this country was at its peak. They used it during that time because nobody else was helping, and all they had to rely on was each other. People were bonding with three, four and even more to help get through that rough and catastrophic period. These relationships they created were completely non-conforming. It is a sense of community for many.
That is why I'm not quite ready to retire the word.
Posted by Dave Hershey on 10/12/2009 @ 11:14PM PT
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Dave,
I agree that we shouldn't tell others how to behave and was just speculating on where our community will be heading in the future when there is more legal and social acceptance of the Gay community. I see the same tide of history that led to greater equality and acceptance of women and people of color leading to the same acceptance of people with non heterosexual sexual orientations, people with disabilities and people who aren't believers in the Abrahamic faiths.
I was a union waiter in San Francisco during the 1980s when AIDS was considered a disease of Gay men and some preachers were talking about it as God's punishment for our sins. But, while we've got quite a way to go, we've progessed considerably since then. I agree that it isn't yet time to retire the Q word, but I feel that this time will come...
Posted by Andrew Heugel on 10/13/2009 @ 04:41PM PT
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Does anything smack more of hypocrisy than heterosexuals proclaiming a consensual, monogamous, loving relationship between two individuals who are of the same gender "threatens" and in some way "undermines" that same relationship shared by two people of the opposite gender, but then to be willing to overlook the infidelities perpetrated by public servants.
Here are just some of those that should have been a bit more memorable:
http://www.dkosopedia.com/wiki/Examples_of_Republican_hypocrisy_on_moral_values
Posted by John Shepherd on 10/11/2009 @ 11:31PM PT
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I'm at the current age of fourteen; And, my father is a homophobic. He constantly calls people faggots, queers, etc. He doesn't understand how horrible it makes me feel, when he talks crap about people. He needs to understand that, they're exactly like him- human!
Posted by Jared Cordell on 11/15/2009 @ 02:54PM PT
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