The Catholic Church's Program to Cure Gay People
Published November 17, 2009 @ 02:15PM PT
Psychologists around the globe have almost universally condemned ex-gay therapy programs -- rogue "treatment" sessions often sponsored by religious groups to try and change one's sexual orientation from LGBT to heterosexual. The American Psychological Association (APA) even adopted a resolution this past summer that said ex-gay therapy programs were inadequate and potentially dangerous, especially for the long-term mental health of those victimized by such programs.
It's just too bad that the Catholic Church isn't listening to the global health professional community. Case in point, take the Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis, which through its Office of Marriage and Family Life is supporting a type of ex-gay therapy program that asserts homosexuality is both treatable and preventable.
The program is called Courage, and it "ministers" to people who have same-sex attractions, as well as their loved ones. Part of that ministry includes drilling into peoples' brains that homosexuality is a mental disorder, that people in same-sex relationships will never find peace, and that people attracted to members of the same sex suffer from "sickness."
And the really scary part is that not only is this program alive and well in places like St. Paul and Minneapolis, but there are chapters in roughly 116 cities around the country, and even more worldwide. Sure, it's long been no secret that the Church harshes on same-sex marriage. But their active investment in conversion therapy programs signals a whole new level of homophobia, and a whole other level of ignorance when it comes to psychology and human sexuality.
What's particularly puzzling, and hinted at in this Star Tribune article, is that a few years ago there seemed to be somewhat of a pastoral tone between the Catholic Church and the larger LGBT population. The two have never been Laverne & Shirley or Harold & Kumar, but the rhetoric was certainly different in the late 1990s when the Bishops released a statement, "Always Our Children." This statement, while stilted in its understanding of human sexuality, at least called on parents to embrace their gay children and recognized how destructive ostracizing LGBT youth can be, particularly in regards to high rates of LGBT homelessness.
But what a difference a decade makes. The U.S. bishops have turned from their "Always Our Children" statement, and are now prepping a document to be released this month that says gay people threaten the inherent moral dignity of humanity. The Catholic Church has become one of the leading if not the most vocal proponents of ballot initiatives that take away civil rights for LGBT people. And the papacy has taken such a hard-line stance against LGBT people that they recently said they don't want gay folks even visiting the Vatican as tourists.
The sharp turn toward a more anti-gay Church is sad, and positively disaffecting for millions of Catholics in the pews who believe that there's nothing wrong with LGBT folks and that their civil rights should be respected. The Catholic Church's "Courage" program is the antithesis of that. In fact, it's a program that is anything but "courageous."
Instead, it's just a program that reinforces stereotypes about homosexuality that died in the 1970s. One has to wonder where the money comes to fund these types of programs, especially when Catholic schools are shutting down and Catholic parishes are shutting down. Is attempting to cure homosexuality -- a Sisyphus fight if there ever was one -- really a wise investment by the Church?
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Comments (172)
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Author
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Michael Jones is a Change.org Editor.
He is the former Communications Director for the Human Rights Program at Harvard Law School, as well as the former Director of Communications for Pax Christi USA, a national Catholic peace and justice organization. Mike is a graduate of Syracuse University's S.I. Newhouse School of Public Communications and he is also a proud sketch comedy writer.
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this is just another example of a group of people with different beliefs being unable and unwilling to live together with another group with their own beliefs. I say this because the one group is trying there best to change the other group to their way of thinking, which is no better by the way. The other group is not trying to change the catholic church, are they.
Posted by Clifford Scott on 11/17/2009 @ 03:50PM PT
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This is like gangs fighting isn't right Clifford?
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/18/2009 @ 03:30PM PT
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that
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/18/2009 @ 03:31PM PT
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You know what Clifford, I would have absolutely ZERO problem if the church took the policy of live and let live. But NO, they have decided that THEY are holier than us, and I for one absolutely refuse to continue to allow them to shove their theocratic beliefs down my throat with out giving ME a happy ending.
So if you believe this is coming down to a brawl? Absolutely, bring it on. The church has ALWAYS been on the wrong side of history when it comes to discrimination and bigotry, and they will be proven to be on the wrong side of history on this issue of discrimination and bigotry.
Posted by Dave Hershey on 11/19/2009 @ 08:43AM PT
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Indeed...
It may be considered idealistic but its also true...
Good will always triumph over evil.
Posted by Reverend Boony on 11/20/2009 @ 04:17AM PT
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Again I say -- GIVE ATHEISM A CHANCE!
You'll see it's very liberating.
Posted by Al Falafool on 11/20/2009 @ 11:47AM PT
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I am an Atheist I believe in evolution and god but not of organized religions!
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/20/2009 @ 02:49PM PT
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*sigh* Dear Dirty Hippie-
Atheist means you don't believe in God.
So you can't believe in God, while still maintaining that you are an Atheist.
Signed with love,
Prop Kid
Posted by Prop Kid on 11/20/2009 @ 03:14PM PT
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*sigh* Dear Dirty Hippie-
Atheist means you don't believe in God.
So you can't believe in God, while still maintaining that you are an Atheist.
Signed with love,
Prop Kid
Posted by Prop Kid on 11/20/2009 @ 03:14PM PT
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So I forgot to put lol is that a crime? It was to suppose to be FUNNY dirty hippie 2 but I was wasn't being totally stupid and this I mean in nicest way!!!!!
Signed with kindness,
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/20/2009 @ 03:42PM PT
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Look, Mario, it's not that you left out "lol". It's that your posts don't seem to make a whole lot of sense. I can't really decipher what you're trying to say half the time, let alone if you're being facetious. You're posts are rambling, and painfully hard to read. So if I can't read the sarcasm in your inane gibberish, I sincerely apologize.
Posted by Prop Kid on 11/21/2009 @ 09:06AM PT
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Actually, one reason why I do not like the word "atheist" is because, etymologically the term is an inherently derogatory term. It was coined in its original form by Greek theists as a way to shame those who did not buy into their made-up belief system. And to identify them so they could be tortured and put to death.
The Christians and Catholics who ruled our part of the world for the last 1000 years or so perpetuated the term, along with "pagan," "heathen" and others, so they could shame those who did not buy into THEIR made-up belief system. And to identify them so they could be tortured and put to death during the Inquisition.
Remember the Inquisition? There were several, actually, lasting from 1233 AD to 1834 AD! That's not so long ago. And it was separate from the Witch Hunts of Colonial America. But don't get me started on all that. We could go on talking about the atrocities of the Catholic Church and Christianity through WWII and the ongoing activities of KKK chapters in the US today.
My point about using or not using the term "Atheist" to describe myself is partly because I refuse to be identified by any religious-based term, especially one that was invented to demean me. Furthermore, as I do not identify with any organized group that imposes a label in regard to this, I reject anyone's attempt to label me.
Why do I need to use any kind of identifier for something that does not pertain to me?
Religion, God(s), Beliefs, Superstition, Fears of Eternal Damnation, Hopes for 72 Virgins -- none of these things has any relevance to me. So I feel no need to declare where I stand on them by applying a label. Not even Non-believer vs Believer.
However, using the parlance that everyone seems to get and many people fear, I would still urge everyone to GIVE ATHEISM A CHANCE.
You cannot imagine how liberating it is!
Posted by Al Falafool on 11/21/2009 @ 09:24AM PT
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Al, I understand fully because when you limit your understanding of things you limit yourself, as a human being, I think?
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/21/2009 @ 11:22AM PT
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Prop, it that suppose to be an explanation for your cruelty in my inane way F you, is that inane enough for you! I re-read my answers and they are perfectly fine, so, I don't know what world you are coming from but it is certainly not earth! If I have left out a definite article because it was clear enough than repost it or add to it!
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/21/2009 @ 12:23PM PT
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Mario, I'm sorry if you thought I was being cruel, but I seriously honest to God have a hard time reading your posts. Sometimes I can follow the general meaning, but overall I can't understand them. I'm not intending this to be cruel, though I can admit that my last post was perhaps more harsh than I intended it to come out.
I don't know what it is about them, they're just very unclear most of the time. Maybe it's the grammar or something? I don't know. Is English your 2nd language?
Posted by Prop Kid on 11/21/2009 @ 12:53PM PT
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The Catholic Church is nothing more than a legal religious MAFIA with a Pope instead of a "Godfather" and a very protected bully-pulpit called the Vatican.
Posted by Todd Ayer on 12/01/2009 @ 03:49PM PT
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This is the mot ignorant thing I have ever heard, besides Palin's church who tries to "convert" those who choose to live in an alternative type of relationship! Humans are humans. If "churches" were doing what it says in the Bible, then you would not try to "change" anyone, or condem anyone, but as a body of Christ is what church represents would be to open your arms and hearts to all. It not not for the church, those that belong to the church, the government, or anyone else to try to make another human live by someone's elses beliefs.
Posted by Pam Steele on 12/13/2009 @ 09:22AM PT
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On father can you cure me? I'm straight, I'm filipino and I'm poor. A refund of my family's decades of contributions , tuititions and poverty taxes would solve my poverty problems. The pope's conical cap and wiener mobile, a tiny portion of your vast estate would suffice for the rest of my life, which won't be long as I can't shake off my anger over your decades of abuse. Jesus said,"suffer the little children to come unto me." You surely suffered the little children didn't you? Don't forget your latest, publisized,victims the homosexuals. Can you,"cure" them bedore God cures you?
Posted by J A on 12/18/2009 @ 07:30PM PT
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Most of the Catholic church is an organization dedicated to intolerance. It's unfortunate that the intolerant and health-hazard ex-gay therapies are prevalent in the United States, with the Catholic church calling them "Courage' programs. Because of that program, all Catholics who are tolerant of LGBT people should never step inside a Catholic church, although there are more tolerant churches, such as the Episcoal church. With the pace the Catholic church is going, it will certainly go more downhill.
Posted by Edwin Bonilla on 11/17/2009 @ 03:55PM PT
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The Church's idea is ludicrous and stupid! They want everybody to go back at time of slavery and women were being kept and sold! All the work done by women will be shot to hell? They would like to see all women back in the kitchen barefoot and pregnant! All day the women will beaten, raped, and some even killed out of ignorance! Some men that live in this age would be stupid if they let this happen. You cannot force anybody to love you forever if it's not meant to be and not honest!
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/17/2009 @ 04:45PM PT
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be
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/19/2009 @ 05:46PM PT
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Someday we will discover the cure for Christianity. And then a cure for all religion! Only then will the world ever be a truly happy place!
Posted by Al Falafool on 11/17/2009 @ 06:30PM PT
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Someday we will discover the cure to ignorance, now wouldn't that be something?
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/17/2009 @ 06:39PM PT
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Indeed it would.
Posted by Al Falafool on 11/17/2009 @ 08:10PM PT
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I already know the cure for Christianity.......the only problem is it's illegal.
Posted by Dave Hershey on 11/18/2009 @ 12:10AM PT
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What is that Dave? Send me a private meassge! L0L
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/18/2009 @ 12:48AM PT
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Christians aren't the problem. I am a gay Christian, and take pride in my faith.
That being said, if these people were truly Christians, they wouldn't spread hate filled rhetoric. They would be accepting of all of their brothers and sisters. If they would sit down and actually READ the Bible, they would see that the Sodom was destroyed for reasons unrelated to homosexuality. There are many other examples of misinterpretation (or outright ignoring) of what the text says.
I think Jesus would be horrified to see and hear what is done and said in his name. He preached peace and love, not hate and intolerance.
Please, before you group all Christians together, realize that many are inclusive to all people (ie Unitarian Universalists).
The people whom you are refering to are bigots who hide behind their "faith", while not fully understand what their faith is supposed to represent; not Christians.
Posted by Prop Kid on 11/19/2009 @ 08:02AM PT
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Prop, you are a Christian but I don't see a lot of Christian's in this discussion telling all of us that they stand behind us? You can state the obvious but did you see anyone defending your right the so Called "Christian" you speak of and why aren't they speaking to their Legislators instead of letting these people speak for them? Why aren’t they making a big stink! Is it because they are too proper or too chicken?
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/19/2009 @ 12:54PM PT
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Perhaps they are doing it in another way? A good friend of mine has a son who refused to say the pledge of allegiance, because he thought that until gays have equal rights, then the "liberty and justice for all" part was inaccurate. He has taken a lot of flack for it at school (though he WAS interviewed on CNN, which was pretty cool - go Will!) The family was raised Catholic (though they are now Unitarians), but believe in equal rights and would be appalled at this. He and his family have taken a stand against this, but not on a message board. They have done it through action.
However, they are not members of change.org. Overall, I keep seeing the same few names on this particular board - which makes me think only a few people are actually reading much on it at all in the first place. Doesn't mean supporters/allies don't exist (or are too proper or chicken). It just means they're expressing themselves and their opinions in different ways.
Trust me - a lot more people saw and heard Will and his opinions on CNN, than will EVER see your comments on this lone board, on a liberally-slanted website.
And even if there aren't more Christians speaking up on here, what of it? Still doesn't give you a right to attack ALL Christians. What if the Catholic church used the same argument? "Who in this congregation will stand up against us? No one? Hmm, we must be right!" No, not quite. But that is the same argument you are trying to use here.
So build a bridge and get over it, you dirty hippie.
Posted by Prop Kid on 11/19/2009 @ 03:49PM PT
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Does a real Christian like you call his friends "you dirty hippie" now that doesn't sound very Christian to me?
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/19/2009 @ 04:07PM PT
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No, I don't call my *friends* "dirty hippie". You, on the other hand...
Besides, I was just joshing with you. I wrote out my entire response, and it seemed too stiff, so I threw that in there mostly for my own amusement.
The funny thing is that is the only thing you responded to ;)
Posted by Prop Kid on 11/19/2009 @ 04:17PM PT
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Prop, if you go through the comments you will see I have given my opinion over and over again. I have written a friend she is a writer just like me, and see what it all means, and whether she interprets things like I do and did! I know “Gayness” it is not something that can be cured or is it something that needs to be cured!
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/19/2009 @ 04:36PM PT
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I KNOW you have given your opinions over and over again. That was my whole point; the majority of what is being written is being done by the same few folks. There's nothing wrong with that, I was just saying that those few people do not represent everyone.
My whole point was that just because there aren't many Christians voicing their support on this one message board, doesn't mean that there aren't Christians who don't. I have read many other message boards about gay rights on which many Christians HAVE voiced their support.
And there are other ways to show support, as well. Such as my example of my friend's CNN interview. A straight Christian male, taking a stand for gay rights on national television.
I just didn't agree with people blaming the acts of one segment of a group of people, on the whole group. That, mi amigo, is prejudice.
Posted by Prop Kid on 11/19/2009 @ 05:43PM PT
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I KNOW you have given your opinions over and over again. That was my whole point; the majority of what is being written is being done by the same few folks. There's nothing wrong with that, I was just saying that those few people do not represent everyone.
My whole point was that just because there aren't many Christians voicing their support on this one message board, doesn't mean that there aren't Christians who don't. I have read many other message boards about gay rights on which many Christians HAVE voiced their support.
And there are other ways to show support, as well. Such as my example of my friend's CNN interview. A straight Christian male, taking a stand for gay rights on national television.
I just didn't agree with people blaming the acts of one segment of a group of people, on the whole group. That, mi amigo, is prejudice.
Posted by Prop Kid on 11/19/2009 @ 05:43PM PT
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I understand your point Prop, One individual should not be grouped together and condemn the whole group for his action or decision!
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/19/2009 @ 06:06PM PT
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Indeed...
My girlfriend is christian and she believes in equality as well.
Posted by Reverend Boony on 11/20/2009 @ 04:28AM PT
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I really don't understand why people cling so tightly to any belief system that was developed in ancient times when the modern world in which we live could never have been imagined. Sure, there are a few basic concepts that carry through - love each other, don't kill people, don't steal, etc. But the majority of stories that Christians cite to back up their presumptions about how we should live our lives are so irrelevant to the 21st Century. What do you need all those fables and fairy tales for as an adult in this modern world? And how can anyone believe that the rites and superstitions practiced in churches have any power or influence in the real world. Sorry, I don't buy it at all. The only thing that makes sense to me is to be compassionate and try to understand what it means to be a good person - and live that way. Getting wrapped up in ancient stories as if they have some meaning to today's world is nothing more than a distraction that seems to make some people feel superior for being able to quote them. You're not superior. The rest of us just don't care. And many of us are copping more and more to the whole deal that religion is woefully unnecessary in our lives. I'm not advocating for Atheism because I do not believe that we need a word for the absence of something. But we use the word because everyone knows that it means no religion. Beyond that, there are no qualifications or characteristics you have to strive for. Just be yourself. It's very liberating. GIVE ATHEISM A CHANCE!
Posted by Al Falafool on 11/20/2009 @ 12:10PM PT
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No thanks mr. falafool...
I prefer to be a wiccan...
That way I can still believe in the impossible. :P
Posted by Reverend Boony on 11/21/2009 @ 03:31AM PT
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I dated a Wiccan for a while, and I must say, you are the only other Wiccan/Christian couple I've come across.
Congrats on making it work!
And I've seen you on other message boards, as well. Just want to give a shout out to you for standing up for us homos. Even people who are accepting of the gays, sometimes seem to be leery of taking a stand on our behalf. So... good times!
Posted by Prop Kid on 11/21/2009 @ 11:24AM PT
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Im much obliged prop kid. :)
Actually, I dont just speak my 2 cents worth only on here at change.org...
I have my own ministry blog where I do the majority of my preaching although Im not as diplomatic there as I am here...
Posted by Reverend Boony on 11/21/2009 @ 06:16PM PT
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sounds like a John Lennon Song, Immagine."
Posted by J A on 12/18/2009 @ 08:15PM PT
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Thats about the same as the DEA trying to "cure" me of my desire to smoke pot, DESIRE to do so being the operative.
The Catholic church has always, and will always be full of ideological nutcases.
Posted by John Layman on 11/17/2009 @ 07:19PM PT
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That's not really a good example John. I understand what you are trying to convey, but it also implies that homosexuality is simply "a desire," for which one has the ability to make a conscious decision as to their sexual orientation.
Now my desire to marry the person I love, THAT is a desire, but my sexual orientation was never desired or chosen, it has just always been.
Posted by Dave Hershey on 11/19/2009 @ 08:46AM PT
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Definitions of words have never been so important in a discussion like this! Dave is right John that is a bad example it is impossible to change the course of a program unless you keep changing the commands when reaches that stage that keeps it in a loop but the DESIRE makes you think "delicioso it is something I need to do it will help me like you needed help in the first place!"
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/20/2009 @ 12:22PM PT
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There does not need to be a cure for anything of such nature. Just people need to be open minded and tolerant of others feelings. It seems like this is all just a misconception of who the LGBT are any why we are this way. I believe when 2012 rolls areound and nothing happens then we may see more peace.
Posted by Samantha Treadwell on 11/17/2009 @ 07:22PM PT
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Not tolerant Samantha but acceptable as we are a part of team!
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/20/2009 @ 02:42PM PT
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The Nuns at Nativity Catholic School inTiorrance, Ca. ,!951-1958 tried to slap me into believing that homosexuals, Hispanics, Blacks and Filipinos all needed to be," cured."
Posted by J A on 12/16/2009 @ 10:37AM PT
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Sounds more like a concentration camp. But think of the nun who put Billie Holiday in a room for 3 days with a dead girl as punishment. A friend of mine couldn't learn the math in Catholic School and the nun banged his head against the blackboard. But I think it was more for being "accused" of being transgender than anything else, which he was, and today they should see her, a sexy and gorgeous woman. I will say this: I have two ex boyfriends who dealt with the nuns their own way: One kicked a nun and his parents laughed and the other punched a nun and got expelled. I guess it's all a part of learning to be educated. My dog used to bark at nuns and people with black umbrellas. And my dog was Gay. A beautiful French poodle lay on her back and he just walked over her to get to a male dog. It does exist in all species if you do your research. PS I don't doubt some of the nuns were in the closet.
Posted by Lyndsey Price on 12/22/2009 @ 07:38PM PT
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I could sympathise if they didn't have so many buggered altar boys bankrupting arch-dioceses. Well, maybe.
Posted by Edward Craig on 11/17/2009 @ 08:24PM PT
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ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Dave Hershey on 11/18/2009 @ 12:25AM PT
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*laughing*
So true!
Posted by Shawna Burt on 11/20/2009 @ 02:19AM PT
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Just gotta say it, I think 2012 is a load of bull. Same concept as Y2K, except its with a calender that was invented by an ancient civilization.
That aside, It's sad to see how low the church to willing to sink (although still unsurprising). Hopefully many fewer people will be victimized by these "anti-gay" institutions than the last time they were 'popular'.
I wish I could go to the vatican and walk around wearing a lot of LGBT pride paraphernalia.
Posted by Paul Hockhousen on 11/17/2009 @ 09:27PM PT
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Honestly! I don't give a shit whether or not 2012 is the end of the myan calendar or not! If it is bring it on......it would get some of these @ssholes off our planet.
Posted by Dave Hershey on 11/18/2009 @ 12:26AM PT
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Now that would be something to see...
A gay pride parade invading the vatican...
If were lucky it'll freak the poop out enough for him to have a heart attack...Wait a minute...You gotta have a heart before you can have an attack...Damnnnnnnn...Never mind. :(
Posted by Reverend Boony on 11/18/2009 @ 01:38AM PT
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Is it just me, or B16 bear a frightening resemblance to Emperor Palpatine?
Oh, and I would PAY to watch a gay pride parade/festival invade the Vatican.
Posted by Shawna Burt on 11/20/2009 @ 02:21AM PT
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Whos B16 ?
Posted by Reverend Boony on 11/21/2009 @ 03:35AM PT
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By B16 I assume that Shawna is referring to the current pope, not the Vitamin supplement. What is it, Benzadine? Balthazaar? Bealzebub?
I know his real name is RATzinger and that the position he held before snagging his current gig was as Head of the Church Office originally called the Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Roman and Universal Inquisition.
Yes, THAT Inquisition. Makes sense doesn't it?
Because of the Inquisition's PR problems, the Office of the Inquisition went through some name changes and ended up being called the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. Until 2005 when the previous pope finally keeled over, RATzinger was the "Perfect" which is their arrogantly presumptuous title for Head Honcho.
That's all I need to know about B16.
Did someone call "BINGO!?"
Posted by Al Falafool on 11/21/2009 @ 09:48AM PT
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Though my knowledge of history in regards to the inqusitions is woefully inadequit...I would call "BLACK JACK" in response to your clarification...
Posted by Reverend Boony on 11/21/2009 @ 06:21PM PT
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“The Bible is the story of God's love for the world and the people of the world. It tells the history of God's love at work rescuing, renewing, and empowering humankind. It was never intended to be a book about human sexuality. Certainly, you will agree.
In fact, the Bible accepts sexual practices that we condemn and condemns sexual practices that we accept. Lots of them! Here are a few examples.
DEUTERONOMY 22:13-21
If it is discovered that a bride is not a virgin, the Bible demands that she be executed by stoning immediately.
DEUTERONOMY 22:22
If a married person has sex with someone else's husband or wife, the Bible commands that both adulterers be stoned to death.
MARK 10:1-12
Divorce is strictly forbidden in both Testaments, as is remarriage of anyone who has been divorced.
LEVITICUS 18:19
The Bible forbids a married couple from having sexual intercourse during a woman's period. If they disobey, both shall be executed.
MARK 12:18-27
If a man dies childless, his widow is ordered by biblical law to have intercourse with each of his brothers in turn until she bears her deceased husband a male heir.
DEUTERONOMY 25:11-12
If a man gets into a fight with another man and his wife seeks to rescue her husband by grabbing the enemy's genitals, her hand shall be cut off and no pity shall be shown her.
I'm certain you don't agree with these teachings from the Bible about sex. And you shouldn't. The list goes on: The Bible says clearly that sex with a prostitute is acceptable for the husband but not for the wife. Polygamy (more than one wife) is acceptable, as is a king's having many concubines. (Solomon, the wisest king of all, had 1,000 concubines.) Slavery and sex with slaves, marriage of girls aged 11-13, and treatment of women as property are all accepted practices in the Scriptures. On the other hand, there are strict prohibitions against interracial marriage, birth control, discussing or even naming a sexual organ, and seeing one's parents nude.”
For more information, please check out:
What the Bible Says - And Doesn't Say - About Homosexuality
by Rev. Mel White, co-founder of Soulforce
http://www.soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible-gay-christian
Posted by Bryan D. Freehling on 11/17/2009 @ 09:31PM PT
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As everyone has mentioned prior to this thread........ those who preach religion with a message of intolerance = bollocks!!
unfortunately / fortunately i couldn't even read half way through
so really doesn't matter what the Bible says, in reality it was written by a bunch of sexist morons!!
(my apologies i am a little "fumed" :-)
Posted by ash bibi on 11/18/2009 @ 04:44AM PT
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Bryan, I don't want to put you on the spot but what was Sadom & Gamora about, is it about GAYS!
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/18/2009 @ 03:24PM PT
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Mr. sabattini...
At the risk of missing some more of your intresting sarcasm...
Soddom and gomorrah were about folks who had become selfish and greedy to the point that they not only mistreated the poor and needy...They also viciously attacked/punished anybody who was compasionate.
The reason why soddom and gomorrah is used so much as illogical justification for being prejudiced is because of that one part in the bible where it indicated the soddomites wanted to gang rape the angels BUT what most folks dont know is that raping a man through sodomy was often used back then as a method of accute humiliation...
So, no...Soddom and gomorrah never had anything to do with homosexuality.
Posted by Reverend Boony on 11/19/2009 @ 01:47AM PT
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MR. McHugh, what did you mean at the risk of missing some more of my interesting sarcasm. Was my wording wrong enough to be funny! This question was for Bryan? But thanx for answering it for me, I do appreciate it! I didn't know their names or story!
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/19/2009 @ 02:31AM PT
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No problem mr. sabattini...
In answer to your question, the last time I thought I was correcting you on a missassumption, I found out that you were being sarcastic...
That was the reason for my remark.
Posted by Reverend Boony on 11/20/2009 @ 04:36AM PT
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Hi Bryan: Thanks for the documentation. It is interesting to see how those that hold their bibles so close to their chests actually behave in the real world. Their type of morality makes your average criminal look saintly.
It is the Catholic Church that "threatyens the inherent moral dignity of humanity".
Posted by Barbara McNamara on 12/02/2009 @ 10:06AM PT
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But Wait!!! Are you saying the world is not flat? The earth revolves around the sun? The Pope is not infallible? But! But! But!???????????
Posted by J A on 12/16/2009 @ 10:11AM PT
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I'm tired of the church treating homo sexuality likes it's a disease. It's a life style choice. Yes, the bible says it's wrong, but doesn't God also love the weak and the sinner? People don't take that into consideration enough and start making up excuses for why we're the way we are.
Posted by Michelle Roufley on 12/18/2009 @ 12:28PM PT
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No mr. jones...
I'll tell you what scares the shit out of me...
The fact that the roman catholic church are gonna be able to ruin a lot of kid's lives with their bullshit therepy...
Now thats SCARY.
Posted by Reverend Boony on 11/18/2009 @ 01:34AM PT
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I'm not even in my 20s yet and religious people are already driving me insane. I live in a fundamentalist christian neighborhood and I get shit all the time for being an atheist, I'm so glad I'm not gay too cuz they get it even worse.
Why can't christians/catholics be like everyone else and just keep their beliefs to themselves?
Posted by Greg Deshong on 11/18/2009 @ 02:03AM PT
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this is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.........why don't they just accept people for what they are and deal with it.......or they could do as Sarah suggest
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bObItmxAGc&feature=player_embedded
Posted by Cherokee Fred Jesus on 11/18/2009 @ 05:56AM PT
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can you handle the truth about religion and its origins??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNf-P_5u_Hw&feature=related
Posted by Cherokee Fred Jesus on 11/18/2009 @ 05:59AM PT
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uh oh. Here comes Zeigeist.
Posted by Lyndsey Price on 12/22/2009 @ 08:09PM PT
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uh oh. Here comes Zeigeist.
Posted by Lyndsey Price on 12/22/2009 @ 08:09PM PT
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Having been raised a Catholic, I really do feel for the LGBT youth in the church today. I also know that some years down the road, the church is going to have to answer for its behavior. What will the church say about this sort of therapy when LGBT people are married and living among us and no one blinks an eye? How will it defend withdrawing its support for the homeless and hungry in Washington, DC simply because LGBT people were allowed to marry there? Historically, the church has had to answer for a great deal of un-Christian behavior. Here we go again.
Posted by Ken Harvey on 11/18/2009 @ 06:36AM PT
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Does anyone know what is the muslim cure for LGBT folks? Could it be worse than that of the Catholic Church?
Perhaps people should open their eyes to the islamic culture and see what they do to gay people. The christians are easygoing compared to what the muslims will do to gays.
Don't bash the christians when you don't know what other religions are doing. It's therapy versus stoning and beheading.
Posted by jack barr on 11/18/2009 @ 07:00AM PT
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Trust me, if it wasn't against the law christians would still be stoning and beheading. That "therapy" causes extreme damage to their minds which is just as bad in my opinion.
There's christians in africa right now trying to work with the african government to jail gays or have them killed.
Posted by Greg Deshong on 11/18/2009 @ 07:17AM PT
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Excellent point.
Not that I would ever want to see it but with American resolve waning what if the Muslim extremists were ever able to take control of the White house.
I would love to see the see the liberals try to push their agenda on the new Muslim regime.
Posted by Carl Jonson on 11/18/2009 @ 07:48AM PT
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As a child of conservative Christian parents I'd like to point out that physical abuse is not exactly confined to conservative Islam. When I came out I was beaten to the point of being hospitalised. When I was discharged I was sent to ex-gay camp. When that failed (pretty miserably, I met my first boyfriend there) I was disowned. Hatred exists in all people, regardless of religion.
Posted by Tobias Fangor on 11/19/2009 @ 12:44AM PT
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Mr. barr...
Thats like comparing apples and oranges except that both the apples and the oranges are rotten to the core.
This so called gay therepy is just as bad as stoning and/or beheading because in all instances it winds up killing the person's spirit and possible driving them to suicide.
Sexual orientation is no more changable or choosable than eye or hair color.
Posted by Reverend Boony on 11/19/2009 @ 01:54AM PT
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Mr. mchugh,
It is not apples and oranges. One punishment is physical and the other is mental.
If you are not aware, people can now choose colorful contact lenses and today's hair color comes in a bottle so they are both changeable. Bad analogy on your part.
Posted by jack barr on 11/20/2009 @ 01:54PM PT
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Mr. barr...
Bad analogy my ass.
Sure...You can hide the true color of your hair and/or eyes with hair dye and contact lenses BUT underneath it all...Theyre still the same color.
And yes, I know that gay therepy is assumably mental while the others are physical BUT that doesnt lessen the possible/probable damage done in either case.
In the end...Its all the same.
Torture based on prejudice resulting in spiritual death at the very least and physical death at most.
Posted by Reverend Boony on 11/21/2009 @ 03:42AM PT
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Hey Jack,
As I have been finding myself talking a lot about lately, The Catholic Church had its heyday of torture and killing during the various Inquisitions that only officially ended in 1834. So there is a bit of a difference between the way the Church deals with homosexuals and other dissidents today and the way the Muslims do today.
And that difference - in degree only - allows the current church to be tolerated by the civilized people of the world who really don't want to be bothered with the Church's intolerance as long as they are not torturing or killing people any more.
But the Church's propensity to discriminate and its long history of doing so - to the extreme! - give us little reason to trust that their basic underlying attitudes have changed, especially with the kinds of language used in the Church and its totally inappropriate interference in political battles that keep anti-LGBT discrimination alive.
Posted by Al Falafool on 11/21/2009 @ 10:31AM PT
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Oh, and we should be GRATEFUL that your church is offering us "therapy" rather than "stoning and beheading?"
OMG! There is just too much going through my mind actually reading those words. It's probably best just to be concise and to the point: You and your Church can just...
GO FUCK YOURSELF!!!!
Posted by Al Falafool on 11/21/2009 @ 10:40AM PT
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Once again, more misrepresentations of the church. This the mission of courage:
Persons with homosexual desires have always been with us; however, until recent times, there has been little, if any, formal outreach from the Church in the way of support groups or information for such persons. Most were left to work out their path on their own. As a result, they found themselves listening to and accepting the secular society's perspective and opting to act on their same-sex desires.
His Eminence, the late Terence Cardinal Cooke of New York, was aware of, and troubled by this situation. He knew that the individual dealing with same-sex attractions truly needed to experience the freedom of interior chastity and in that freedom find the steps necessary to living a fully Christian life in communion with God and others. He was concerned that many would not find this path and would be constantly trying to get their needs met in ways that ultimately do not satisfy the desires of the heart.
In response to this concern, he decided to form a spiritual support system which would assist men and women with same-sex attractions in living chaste lives in fellowship, truth and love.
Knowing of Fr. John Harvey's extensive ministry experience in this field, he invited him to come to his Archdiocese.
With the help of the Rev. Benedict Groeschel, C.F.R., and others, Fr. Harvey began the Courage Apostolate with its first meeting meeting in September, 1980 at the Shrine of Mother Seton in South Ferry.
With the endorsement of the Holy See, Courage now has more than 110 Chapters and contact people world-wide, over 1500 persons participating in its ListServs, and hundreds of persons per week receiving assistance from the main office and website. It has become a mainstream Catholic Apostolate helping thousands of men and women find peace through fellowship, prayer, and the Sacraments.
The Courage Central Office operates through the prayerful and financial support of the Archdiocese of New York as well as contributions and volunteer work from Courage members and other individuals and organizations committed to advancing its efforts.
Individual chapters throughout the world are self-supporting and exist with the permission of their diocesan Bishop.
In helping individuals gain a greater understanding and appreciation of the Church's teachings, especially in the area of chastity, Courage extends the Church's invitation to a life of peace and grace. In chaste living, one finds the peace and grace to grow in Christian maturity.
The five goals:
The following five goals of Courage were created by the members themselves, when Courage was founded. The goals are read at the start of each meeting and each member is called to practice them in daily life.
1.Live chaste lives in accordance with the Roman Catholic Church's teaching on homosexuality. (Chastity)
2. Dedicate ones life to Christ through service to others, spiritual reading, prayer, meditation, individual spiritual direction, frequent attendance at Mass, and the frequent reception of the sacraments of Reconciliation and Holy Eucharist. (Prayer and Dedication)
3. Foster a spirit of fellowship in which all may share thoughts and experiences, and so ensure that no one will have to face the problems of homosexuality alone. (Fellowship)
4. Be mindful of the truth that chaste friendships are not only possible but necessary in a chaste Christian life and in doing so provide encouragement to one another in forming and sustaining them. (Support)
5.Live lives that may serve as good examples to others. (Good Example/Role Model)
Nothing about becoming ex-gay. The Vatican not allowing gays? I have no idea where the author got that. That is more nonsense.
Posted by Carl Jonson on 11/18/2009 @ 07:38AM PT
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A few responses to Carl's piece. First, the director of the Courage program is on record (see the PDF link in this post) saying that homosexuality is preventable and treatable, and that those two dispositions are what guides the Courage program. The five points outlined (living a chaste life, dedicating oneself to Christ, creating chaste friendships) might all sound more tolerable than your average shock therapy to cure gay people, but make no mistake, Courage is about "treating" people who "suffer" from homosexuality to "cure" them of their same-sex attractions.
The Vatican not welcoming gay tourists doesn't come from me -- it comes from ETN, a Catholic television network. You can see this link -- http://www.eturbonews.com/12537/are-gay-tourists-welcomed-vatican -- where Bishop Janusz Kaleta says that gay tourist groups are not appropriate for the Vatican.
Posted by Michael Jones on 11/18/2009 @ 08:56AM PT
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This is precious: "Persons with homosexual desires have always been with us; however, until recent times, there has been little, if any, formal outreach from the Church in the way of support groups or information for such persons. Most were left to work out their path on their own. As a result, they found themselves listening to and accepting the secular society's perspective and opting to act on their same-sex desires."
I would just have to say to the presumptuous bitch who penned the lines above: EAT ME, mother fucker!
As IF you can claim any responsibility for the rise of LGBT consciousness and liberation even by the implication of your church's supposed failure to recognize that it was happening.
The church knew what was going on in the 1960s and 70s when we were advancing the gay liberation movement - AND THE CHURCH DID EVERYTHING THEY COULD THINK OF TO QUASH IT! They did not REACH out because they were too busy KICKING out anyone who dared to support LGBT people and our emerging presence in the world.
And who cared? The church was a big part of what we needed to shed in order to become ourselves. We were all much better off without having to pay any attention to the church. Only much later did the church find this way to fool their weaker followers into sticking with their primitive belief system and deny their true authentic selves.
Anybody who makes the very non-courageous (I would say cowardly) decision to stick with the Catholic Church and who wants to take part in your torturous self-oppression/suppression rather than truly find themselves -- well fine.
Makes just as much sense as why anyone else wants to stick with the outrageously stupid but powerful church. Y'all can just go fuck yourselves as far as I'm concerned.
Posted by Al Falafool on 11/21/2009 @ 11:16AM PT
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Carl: This whole Courage program is wrong. Why is the Catholic Church still believing and professing, and why are you still supporting, a program that clearly is intended to destroy people's lives. Do you not know that human beings are all perfect in the eyes of God. They do not need to be changed as per your, or the Catholic Church's, ideas of perfection. You are basing your assumptions upon ancient and misguided ideas of what constitutes the human experience and man's place upon this earth.That there are 110 chapters propagating these erroneous and dangerous lies is very scary indeed.
I understand that you feel the Catholic Church to you is the almighty savior here on earth, but there are so many people who do not think or feel that way. You have no right to destroy another person's humanity and sense of self, because you believe they must be cured or saved from who they are. They don't. It is you who must be saved from preaching falsehoods, and it is the Catholic Church that has stopped short of being that beacon of light and truth. It clearly has lost its way.
I feel for all those who believe there is something wrong with them because the Catholic Church wishes them to believe that there is and will stop at nothing to torment them into changing their ways and changing their being. They cannot, ever, be anything but who they are. It is you and the Catholic Church that has set the example for intolerance and loathing. Look around you. There are more LGBT people than you can possibly realize. This is the law of nature; this is what God intended, and I will defy you every step of the way to prove differently, because you NEVER will.
Posted by Barbara McNamara on 12/02/2009 @ 11:26AM PT
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Is the Church afraid of Gay people because we are smart or is it really about the marriage thing? What is the big deal anyway about deserving and wanting the same rights as a heterosexual couple? This is about how we have sex and not we make love! Are two men or two women really that offensive when in their mind they are either sex a man or a woman and just packaged differently? The perception of what a man and a woman look like not foundation of creation!!!!!!!
Do the Catholics really hate God? I was told he is perfect, non- judgmental, non-violent, and his followers looked upon him for leadership has he changed his mind and can he do that so easily? I thought that God and we knew each other has he forgotten my face why? I thought that all people were special to him?
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/18/2009 @ 09:49AM PT
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how we make love
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/18/2009 @ 09:58AM PT
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I forgot what about people that have sex with animals do they need curing?
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/18/2009 @ 10:13AM PT
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What do those who practise beastiality have to do with homosexuality ?
Posted by Reverend Boony on 11/19/2009 @ 02:15AM PT
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Mr. McHugh, Aren't you a type of animal? What is the difference if they see a dog being utilized in that fashion doesn't bother the Catholic Church? Was that God's intention would you say? These people just like to be with animals I think?
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/19/2009 @ 02:52AM PT
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Homosexuality = CONSENTING ADULTS
Bestiality = RAPE
Pedophilia = RAPE
HUGE difference, Mario, though your leaps of logic are quite impressive.
Posted by Shawna Burt on 11/20/2009 @ 02:25AM PT
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Miss burt...
You took the words right out of my mouth and spoke them more eloquintly than I could.
Thank you. :)
Posted by Reverend Boony on 11/20/2009 @ 04:39AM PT
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Now that's stupid, Mario. Bestiality is a sickness.
In the LGTB community are human beings who happen to love romantically members of their own gender. This is neither wrong nor abnormal. Taking advantage of an innocent animal is wrong on so many levels. I can't believe you said that, after the comment you just made.
Posted by Barbara McNamara on 12/02/2009 @ 10:19AM PT
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That is exactly my point but yet is it against the law? Said what, I agreed with every point you have made!
Posted by Peter S. T. on 12/02/2009 @ 01:11PM PT
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Stop the TORTURE of Teenagers in the USA and around the World
Sexual orientation emerges without any prior sexual experience. Although individuals can choose whether to act on their feelings, psychologists and psychiatrists do not consider sexual orientation to be a conscious choice that can be voluntarily changed.
Sometimes pressured by the influence of family members or religious groups, LGBT individuals are strongly encouraged, if not coerced, to try and change their sexual orientation through counseling or religion. Attempting to change a person’s sexual orientation is like attempting to change one's eye color. The reality is that sexual orientation is not a choice or an illness. It does not require treatment and it is not changeable.
In 1973 the American Psychiatric Association confirmed the importance of new better designed research and removed homosexuality from the official manual that lists mental and emotional disorders (DSM). Two years later, the American Psychological Association passed a resolution supporting the removal.
For more than 25 years, both associations have urged all mental health professionals to help dispel the stigma of mental illness that some people still associate with homosexual orientation.
Counseling and "Rehabilitation" programs to change a person's sexual orientation are nothing more than TORTURE camps for LGBT individuals.
These programs cause severe pain and anguish for LGBT individuals.
Young kids are often victimized at the hands of their own parents, and many choose suicide as their only means of escape.
Urge your elected officials to shut down these institutions of torture cloaked in religious ideology, and help prevent unnecessary teen suicides. Remind them that, above all, if they are not part of the solution, then they are part of the problem, and they too will have blood on their hands.
Please sign the following petition:
http://gayrights.change.org/actions/view/stop_the_torture_of_teenagers_in_the_usa
Posted by Bryan D. Freehling on 11/18/2009 @ 12:55PM PT
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Signed...
Posted by Reverend Boony on 11/19/2009 @ 02:16AM PT
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Signed, thank you!
Posted by Dave Hershey on 11/19/2009 @ 08:59AM PT
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Thanks Bryan for making us aware of the petition and thanks as always Dave and tom for your comments and for being the first to sign.
Posted by Martin Martinez on 11/19/2009 @ 09:25AM PT
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Your very welcome mr. martinez.
Posted by Reverend Boony on 11/20/2009 @ 04:41AM PT
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Signed. Abso-freakin-lutely signed!
Posted by Al Falafool on 11/21/2009 @ 09:56AM PT
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I signed this back in August. Has it been that long. Have not we solved this problem yet!?!
Posted by Barbara McNamara on 12/02/2009 @ 10:27AM PT
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The Catholic Church isn't open to hearing about anyone's human rights. They don't want to hear about children's either. "Spare the rod" is still used as a failing but supposedly 'Biblical' excuse to assault children when displeased with them, even though Jesus would never hit another person and especially a child.
You'd think that for a group that's supposed to be following in Jesus' footsteps, they might stop smearing his messages and permitting hatred one of these days.
I have all respect for "Christians" and "Christ like" people, but very little for the Catholic church anymore.
Posted by Christine Clarke on 11/18/2009 @ 02:52PM PT
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Great skill in the Martial Arts presents little need to," turn the other cheek." Intricate knowlege of the catholic church leaves me little desire to. Fortunately, I'm held in check by the code of honor that was so much a part of my training. I found this page wandering the internet. A post by a catholic priest caught my attention,36 hours later I'm still raging.This what I have to say to the church. I forgive you, have no fear but never try to strike me again, you will hurt yourself severely. I will stand by you until you think you can look down on me or any one, you will find yourself on your knees. Do not attempt to teach or preach to me unless you are willing to risk humiliation. Stay away from the children, I will defend them. Don't ask for money, you owe to much. Never claim to speak for anyone, by your own words I will humble you.Forgive my anger but this has been smouldering in me for 56 years from 7-63. My teacher would say," this is a burden you must not put down," Children can not defend themselves and to many adults don't know how. The church hasn't changed, I haven't forgotten, so here I am.
Posted by J A on 12/17/2009 @ 12:03AM PT
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The first step to "cure" Christianity and particularly the Catholic Church is to take away the churches' tax exempt status. If all churches were taxed as the profit making institutions that they are we would all be much better off. Then I wouldn't be so blasted angry at them for spending their ill gotten gains on advertising designed to prevent me from attaining my civil rights.
Posted by Gary Allmon on 11/18/2009 @ 03:32PM PT
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But I want my money back first!
Posted by J A on 12/16/2009 @ 10:40PM PT
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Being sexual is like being a smoker, an alcoholic and there is no cure! Let‘s assume that we are a habit and you have given up the behavior the desire will always be within you! Noone needs treatment for that, and you don’t need to any stock therapy, any drug, or even an operation to the brain!
You stop smoking 4 packs a day but the desire and temptation is always there! Do any us have control over our actions? Yes we do! If you quit smoking four packs and start with a slight excuse “I will only a one puff” you will ulinately consume 4 packs a day and the habit is back! You don’t need shock therapy or any kind of therapy for something you can yourself with a friend or someone you trust implicitly.
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/18/2009 @ 04:28PM PT
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Um...
What?
Posted by Paul Hockhousen on 11/18/2009 @ 04:45PM PT
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This is what the Church is seeing, as long they see or hear of it it is cured! Do you think that you are something to be cured? Do you take one day at a time if you had give up a habit, the habit is not completely gone it lingers so Psychologists say! Once you get rid of habit, behavior, you get rid of the desire? Do you think that you were cured if you participated and still had this yearning inside of you and will go back to that habit with a little encouragement? You got to remember I am not curing the person rather it is his behavior. It is called behavior modification! There is no cure for Homosexuality!
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/18/2009 @ 05:12PM PT
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Mr. sabattini...
You have an intresting way of looking at things.
Habits however are changable while innate traits such as sexual orientation isnt changable.
If I chose to do so...I could give up my tobacco habit although it wouldnt be easy due to the many years of my ingesting nicotine and whatever other addictive drugs the tobacco companies put in BUT in no way could I ever choose to be gay nor would I ever be able to honestly see a man as being more sexualy attractive than a woman but then, Im heterosexual.
I would make the same argument that there is no way that a gay man or woman could ever honestly change their sexual orientation nor would I ever expect them to.
Posted by Reverend Boony on 11/19/2009 @ 02:10AM PT
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That is correct, Mr McHugh and thanx you!
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/19/2009 @ 12:13PM PT
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You can change the behavior but not the innate trait! I am not suggesting that you can change the original programming but I suggesting that it is cure for the behavior is not cure for Homosexuality the action taken on those feelings but with fear they will eliminate that behavior that never goes away! You become too afraid to go for it when every fiber of your being tells you different!
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/19/2009 @ 12:35PM PT
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*facepalm*
Again with the epic leaps of logic....
Dude, are you high, or are you really just that ignorant?
Posted by Shawna Burt on 11/20/2009 @ 02:29AM PT
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Mr. sabattini...
Why would anyone want to change a non-harmful behavior ?
Posted by Reverend Boony on 11/20/2009 @ 04:47AM PT
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I am not saying cure homosexuality, but if they feel that we were such a threat to society, all the cures in the world is only going to treat its behavior not the disease itself not that we need any curing! I have been saying this oh I don’t know for years and on is this DB maybe it you people that need a lesson not me.
And Shawna Burtt Watch who you are calling stupid maybe you are did you ever think of that!
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/20/2009 @ 07:15AM PT
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I, for one, find your posts to be confusing and difficult to read. The incomprehensibility is what's bringing you down, man -- be precise, keep it short and sweet, and you'll get your point across.
Posted by Shawna Burt on 11/21/2009 @ 02:08AM PT
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This is not about Religion it's about Philosophy, Psychology, Physiology, Biology, Sociology, and political Science and the Question is, ready "How do gay people fit in the scheme of things.” Answer that question and I believe we shall be home free!
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/18/2009 @ 04:46PM PT
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There are several answers to this, one explanation is natural selection. The Earth is overpopulated as it is, and it is increasing at an exponential rate. If we continue to populate at the same rate, there will not be enough resources for the human species to survive. Therefore, "mother nature" controls the population growth.
Secondly, evidence shows that the more males a woman has, the greater the chance that the woman's body will treat the fetus as an infection and produces different antibodies to fight off that infection which generates a chemical reaction/imbalance within the fetus. Other evidence shows that the brain of gay males are very similar to those of heterosexual females but not that of the heterosexual male. There is a lot more evidence that I am leaving out due to time constraints, but I guess Steven Colbert was right, we should be constrained to being wedding planners, but not be allowed to get married ourselves.
Posted by Dave Hershey on 11/19/2009 @ 09:11AM PT
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Mother Nature, D ave, is a pretty wise and smart lady? Having the right to marry is definitely a right that women share why not Gay people? As you, Dave, pointed out our brain is similar than that of a heterosexual female, but not all gay males want to or consider becoming a drag queen or ultimately a woman! Many gay brains are products of our environment too don’t forget and you fall in love with is emotionally female that is male or female that is a emotionally male that is male or female and not a Sarah Palin although very sexy indeed! Hahahahahaha She is one sexy mama! We can greatly benefit from the female prospective as the male prospective I think? But think Lesbians are feminists? LoL L0L L0L L0L I really don’t know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/19/2009 @ 07:23PM PT
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My answer to that question sir would be that the G.L.B.T. community are just as important to mother earth as us heterosexuals.
In my mind and heart they are already my equals in terms of civil rights and equality.
Posted by Reverend Boony on 11/20/2009 @ 04:55AM PT
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Thomas, I want you to know that I feel the same way about you. You are totally cool in my book and I don't want to flatter you but it takes some kind of courage to stand with the LGBT Community. Thanks.
Posted by Al Falafool on 11/21/2009 @ 10:10AM PT
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Thank you mr. falafool but really...
Im just doing whats right.
BTW...Too late...You already flattered me... :)
Posted by Reverend Boony on 11/21/2009 @ 06:33PM PT
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The Catholic church under the new pope has reverted back "reparative therapy" (and it is neither). The term is a catchall phrase for therapy intended to heal or prevent homosexuality. Its roots stem back to the work of a British theologian and self-proclaimed psychologist, Elizabeth Moberly. There is an incredible explanation of this pseudo science by Jeffry G. Ford, Psychologist at http://jgford.homestead.com
Posted by Luanne Hunley on 11/18/2009 @ 04:47PM PT
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Makes sense - in a very sick way - that Prince RAT-zinger (AKA B16) would be reverting to such hate-based pograms as "reparative therapy." His last gig was, afterall, head of the Vatican's Office of the Inquisition. For real, though. It's called the office of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith now but it is the same office as conducted the Spanish inquisition - among other attrocities.
Posted by Al Falafool on 11/21/2009 @ 11:30AM PT
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Baltimore O'Brien proud of homophobic document "Since marriage and same-sex unions are different realities, it is not unjust discrimination to oppose the legal recognition of same-sex unions," the letter says. "These unions pose a serious threat to the fabric of society that affects all people."
Posted by Luanne Hunley on 11/18/2009 @ 04:49PM PT
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As usual, the church is in strong defiance of science and psychiatry. This is pure propaganda from one of the last holdouts (on this side of the world) of the Dark Ages.
The church's defiance of nature is a primary reason why they manufacture so many sexual abusers of children. This big theocratic cult has a right to their views and delusions. However, they should acknowledged by their survivors and people outside of the cult for the dangerous force it continues to be. Rev. Bookburn - Radio Volta
Posted by Rev Bookburn on 11/18/2009 @ 06:27PM PT
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(I was hoping someone would make that point.)
How many Catholic Priest, have had allegations of pedophilia brought against them?
............If they can't teach their own priest not to molest children- how are they going to teach people, not to be gay?
Posted by L.S. hope on 11/19/2009 @ 12:06AM PT
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Nicely put...
Posted by Barbara McNamara on 12/02/2009 @ 10:45AM PT
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This is what the Church is seeing, as long they see or hear of it it is not cured! Do you think that you are something to be cured? Do you take one day at a time if you had give up a habit, the habit is not completely gone it lingers so Psychologists say! Once you get rid of habit, behavior, you get rid of the desire? Do you think that you were cured if you participated and still had this yearning inside of you and will go back to that habit with a little encouragement? You got to remember I am not curing the person rather it is his behavior. It is called behavior modification! There is no cure for Homosexuality!
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/18/2009 @ 07:30PM PT
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Unless the geneticist is able to identify the gene and can alter it! And that doesn't seem to be the case but someday, not today!
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/19/2009 @ 12:59AM PT
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Mr. sabattini...
In the intrest of preventing a eugenics program from becomming a predominant and destructive force in our lives or the lives of future generations...I pray to the great spirit that such a gene is never found untill after we human beings have evolved to the point where prejudice no longer exists.
Posted by Reverend Boony on 11/19/2009 @ 02:23AM PT
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Mr, McHugh, I don't believe it be tomorrow but I have a feeling it be then but then it will not seem as important as it is today!
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/19/2009 @ 03:03AM PT
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Good for the A.P.A.,they are right our orientation cannot be cured. As i have said before true love is accepting us for who we are. I am having difficulty with my brother and sister accepting my homosexuality but I hope one day they will and when they meet my friend this thanksgiving maybe they will change their mind.
Posted by Martin Martinez on 11/19/2009 @ 03:39AM PT
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No offense but I really don't think that'd be the best thing for you. I'm straight but I have a gay uncle who came out of the closet recently, my dad's really prejudice against gay people and other races cuz he's ignorant and he doesn't understand what it's like to be them. Anyway, as soon as he came out of the closet he came to visit with his boyfriend and that just made things worse, I think you need to ease them into it.
Posted by Greg Deshong on 11/19/2009 @ 03:50AM PT
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Greg there is not easy way except people like your father will aways exist and he needs to take from it comes. You seem to be supportive and that what needs more that he got to learn to sink or swim of course there will always places to go but friends and loved ones are the most important!
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/19/2009 @ 04:09AM PT
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Thanks Greg and you did not offend me.
Posted by Martin Martinez on 11/19/2009 @ 04:54AM PT
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I am not saying cure homosexuality, but if they feel that we were such a threat to society, all the cures in the world are only going to treat its behavior not the disease itself not that we need any curing! I have been saying this oh I don’t know for years and on is this DB maybe it you people that need a lesson not me.
And Shawna Watch who you are calling stupid maybe you are did you ever think of that!
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/20/2009 @ 12:46PM PT
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Definitions of words have never been so important in a discussion like this! Dave is right John that is a bad example it is impossible to change the course of a program unless you keep changing the commands when reaches that stage that keeps it in a loop but the DESIRE makes you think "delicioso it is something I need to do it will help me like you needed help in the first place!"
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/20/2009 @ 12:49PM PT
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The Church's idea is ludicrous and stupid! They want everybody to go back at time of slavery and women were being kept and sold! All the work done by women will be shot to hell? They would like to see all women back in the kitchen barefoot and pregnant! All day the women will be beaten, raped, and some even killed out of ignorance! Some men that live in this age would be stupid if they let this happen. You cannot force anybody to love you forever if it's not meant to be and not honest!
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/20/2009 @ 12:52PM PT
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It is because of people like him that the kids are depressed and have psychological problem. It is people like him that believe that kids grow up wrong and are wrong despite the overwhelming psychological findings. In nearly every study showed that every gay parent’s children do just as well or maybe better than children raised by straight parents. Attorney General Bill McCollum - What s your beef here don’t you trust these psychologists? Why are you taking that position? Is it politically driven or you actually feel this way? Where are you running to Bill is it nowhere?
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/20/2009 @ 12:58PM PT
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“I don’t hate gay people, I just believe in traditional marriage.” It's ok if we are unhappy but she will tolerate us as if we were something to be despised and beneath her. She has too much class, excuse me Mrs. Sarah Palin , salami, salami, salami! The last word is misspelled intentionally!
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/20/2009 @ 01:31PM PT
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You can change the behavior but not the innate trait! I am not suggesting that you can change the original programming but I am suggesting that it is no cure for the behavior as there is no cure for Homosexuality. The actions taken on those feelings will be with fear and the homosexual tendencies and the action that you want to take never goes away! I hope I explained it well! We will be just for Show!
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/20/2009 @ 04:54PM PT
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Your doing better mr. sabattini. :)
Posted by Reverend Boony on 11/21/2009 @ 03:49AM PT
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I beg to differ, Carl. The ONLY option is for a member of Courage is that of a permanently celibate life. This is not natural or desirable for any human being. Yes, if you have a calling to some sort of life that, for a religious reason, I can see this goal of permanent celibate life. For someone who is NOT called to celibacy, it is a terrible thing to ask. And why in its ignorance and arrogance does the RCC ask GLBTQ people in its ranks (because this is just not for Courage members--NO GLBTQ person is allowed to marry the one they love, so in the eyes of the Church it is all sin.
1.Live chaste lives in accordance with the Roman Catholic Church's teaching on homosexuality. (Chastity) Discussed above.
2. Dedicate ones life to Christ through service to others, spiritual reading, prayer, meditation, individual spiritual direction, frequent attendance at Mass, and the frequent reception of the sacraments of Reconciliation and Holy Eucharist. (Prayer and Dedication) Obviously, this is permitted only in a celibate life. Why it cannot be done as part of a loving monogamous couple. Oh yeah, it doesn't lead to babies.
3. Foster a spirit of fellowship in which all may share thoughts and experiences, and so ensure that no one will have to face the problems of homosexuality alone. (Fellowship) Ther are no problems with homosexuality that the Church and homophobia do not cause
4. Be mindful of the truth that chaste friendships are not only possible but necessary in a chaste Christian life and in doing so provide encouragement to one another in forming and sustaining them. (Support) Again what is wrong with friendships AND monogamous marriage of GLBTQ people, other than the homophobes in Rome are not comfortable with it? Boils down to preserving the homophobes' comfort zone. You don't have to deal with the thought that a GAY or LESBIAN (OMG!) married couple who are (OMG! OMG!) having sex (OMG! OMG! OMG!).
5.Live lives that may serve as good examples to others. (Good Example/Role Model) Again, you give no proof that a GLBTQ married person could not be a role model. All the homophobes in Rome can think of is to make sure that "teh gay" is kept celibate and if he/she falls, well, there is always confession to "guilt" them back into line.
No thanks, Carl. There is no need for this except as a way to further guilt and control gay people. I lived through this as a Roman Catholic in the 1970s and as an Eastern Orthodox Christian in the 1980's- 1994. No more! All groups like Courage do is to make GLBTQ Catholics feel worse about themselves and keep them corralled in their little group with no hope of anything but a lonely celibate life.
In 2007 I married a beautiful woman (both inside and out) in Canada. I will not give her up for anything. You may take the Roman Catholic Church and take a long walk off a short pier! Ditto Eastern Orthodoxy. Because of the homophobia of many Christian Churches, gay youth have been beaten, (at one time) committed to mental hospitals, thrown into programs which do not work, or disowned. By the grace of the Lord and Lady,none of these have happened to me.
In 2006 I became Pagan and learned that there is Love--the Lord and the Lady. "If it harms none, do as ye will." Sorry that the Catholic Church has yet to learn that GLBTQ people harm no one and should be allowed to live their lives in peace--INCLUDING THE RIGHT TO MARRY.
Posted by Ioan Lightoller on 11/22/2009 @ 02:17AM PT
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"If a heterosexual person thinks that a homosexual person should celebate just because he/she will sin against God if he/she engages in a homosexual relationship, then as a homosexual person, I think a heterosexual person should celebate too because he/she will sin against God if he/she engages in heterosexual relationship.
You’ve lust in your mind, you masturbate, you’ve pre-marital sex, didn’t God tells you that if you’re thinking about sinful thing, you’re sinned? When you’re married, you continue to lust for your spouse & think about the pleasure of sex, why do that? Didn’t God just tell you to be fruitful & multiply only? Do you still have to have sex when you already planted the sperm in the uterus?
And if you think I sinned against God, then who are you to tell me how I should live my life? When I think you sinned against God, will you listen to me how I think you should live your life? Didn’t God tells you that we’re supposed to answer to Him & not you, & tell you to shut your mouth up & not to cast the stone? And tells you that He’ll be the one who judges, punish, & revenge belongs to Him? Only God see through a person’s heart/mind, so who knows how sinful you are inside other than God Himself?
Also, you nuns / priests / bishops / pope, how do I know if you didn’t fantasise & play with yourself in your private? Are you spayed / neutered / anything like that to stop you from having arousal at all? Since you think a homosexual person should celebate, maybe you should also freeze your brain so that satan will have no chance to enter your mind to make you sin at all." Cecilia I don't know your last name but it was astute of you bringing iin mental lsexuality and God's belief into the picture!
Reply Mario Sabattini Says:
November 23, 2009 at 3:56 pm
LOL! You are absolutely right Cecilia! First of all the Church ought to be ashamed for taking that position and be involved itself in politics and second to threaten to stop feeding the poor if Gay Marriage passes it is downright selfish and being down right Evil, it goes against everything the Church and Words of God!
Reply
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/23/2009 @ 03:17PM PT
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In the Star Tribune Article that is linked in the article above, there is the name of an individual who was involved in the Courage group for 17 months. That individual is me. You can read about my experience in Courage at Beyond Ex-gay. I have since left Courage and am now partnered to a wonderful guy. We both now attend St. Mark's Episcopal Cathedral.
I was at the Courage group, I know the spiritual violence and pastoral abuse that takes place there, I experienced it first hand. I am so happy to no longer be a part of that kind of thing. In the Episcopal Church I can experience Catholic like worship, music and spirituality without the iron fist in the velvet glove from the Catholic church. What's more, me and my partner can go to Eucharist there and celebrate who we are, as we are and no one looks at us with disgust or like we should act or do any different than what or who we are. Someday if we want, we can have our relationship blessed there.
I now write a blog about my thoughts about the Scriptures as taken from the Lectionary of the Episcopal Church and I apply it to the full inclusion of LGBT people in the Church and society. It is called Philip's Many Thoughts. I welcome anyone to visit and enjoy.
Posted by Philip Lowe Jr on 11/23/2009 @ 09:35PM PT
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Good for you Philip as you have taken the benefit of what love has got to offer you freely and spiritually! I am surprised that the church ever had the audacity to stand behind that and use that against people in the name of God!
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/23/2009 @ 10:43PM PT
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Hi Philip: I am glad your story has a happy ending. Too many don't. It deeply troubles me to see members of the LGTB community being persecuted simply because of who they are.
Posted by Barbara McNamara on 12/02/2009 @ 09:57AM PT
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what I truly do not understand how can the leaders of the Catholic Church and its Followers can so easily believe in destroying a life- Can it be their religious right? What religion defends that? Do you know? Perhaps, I missed the course where religions had the right to not only to take a stand like this, insinuate itself into politics, and to actually respect those that destroy lives and give them the ammunition to do so?
Posted by Peter S. T. on 11/25/2009 @ 09:04PM PT
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I suspect a large part of the answer to your question lies in the analogy...
Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Posted by Reverend Boony on 11/28/2009 @ 02:25AM PT
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I do suspect that power and control are at the heart of the Catholic hierarchy's reasons for supporting a program like Courage. However, as we know the Catholic church is not alone. Exodus sponsored by many fundamentalist churches actually sponsors a "change" camp. Outpost which is an extension of Exodus assigns "mentors" to follow members around to be sure they don't fall into "trouble." There are lots of other ministries including Courage that are just as damaging.
What is interesting to me is that even though the APA has said very clearly this past summer that reparative therapy or "change" therapy is very bad, even damaging to an individual the Courage organization does use the NARTH (National Association for Research and Treatment of Homosexuality) which recommends the use of reparative or "change" therapy for their psychological basis. Here is one thing that perhaps some people can do. You can go to a website like CatholicTherapists.com and try to do a search to see who practices in your area. Look up the names of therapists that it recommends and see what their position is on homosexuality. You can find out by clicking the names of therapists that it lists, because Catholic Therapists.com has given them a questionaire to fill out to qualify to be listed. Let's say you find someone who does support the Catholic church's position on homosexuality. You can bet that if they do, they are using the NARTH for their psychological basis. You can contact your local chapter of the APA (American Psychological Association) and report them for the use of reparative therapy when the association has specifically said that this practice is damaging. That will help get them put out of practice at least with the APA. Just a thought about some action some might take to help alleviate what happens for many in Courage. As for other programs like Exodus if you know of Psychologists who use reparative therapy, consider following the same idea. Report them to the local APA so they can be disciplined.
Posted by Philip Lowe Jr on 11/28/2009 @ 08:32AM PT
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I went to the CatholicTherapists.com site, and here's what I found out in Maryland. Most of those listed are actually Social Workers. The two that I suspected are psychologists won't return my calls. I suspected as much. This, however, gives me a good indication of how one has to maneuver around the sneakiness of organizations to expose them for what they do. At least now I know, and this info will come in handy. Thanks.
Posted by Barbara McNamara on 12/02/2009 @ 10:53AM PT
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Lets say that one could indeed "CURE" Homosexuality, just lets say?
If that be the case, and all were cured, and I speak as a born and raised Catholic, then I don't think the Catholic Church would have all that much clergy left because 80 something percent of there priests not including the lesbians in the sisterhood, are Gay!
So, I guess if we want rid of the Catholic Church, those of us who are proudly gay in and out of the church, can covertly pretend to be 'CURED" and lead a different life for a while and watch the Vatican come crumbling down.
Idiots that they are, with a Nazi for a Pope!
Nick J Davis
Posted by N J on 12/03/2009 @ 06:33AM PT
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The very private group "COURAGE" was one I came upon in the 1980's when I was younger as I was thinking about joining the priesthood;
COURAGE is filled with pedophiles, including the moderator, and other nonsensical bull you would not believe.
I went to Catholic school for 14 years and the things I learnt while studying in the church;
You need courage if you're not gay, which I proudly am, and you don't cover your back side as a straight guy or adolescent boy! lol..
Courage, ya, what a laugh.
It really isn't a funny matter, more a haven for sexual ill-repute that is truly psycho-sexual in nature, much like they do for there caught pedophile brother and sisterhood, hypocrites!
I should write a book about the secrets of the church and nonsense they spew!
I don't follow the threads so be gentle for those who don't agree...lol..
Oh, and for anyone interested, please support Animal Rights and Liberation on my profile, thanks. :)
Thanks,
Nick J Davis
Posted by N J on 12/03/2009 @ 06:44AM PT
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Thanks Nick for your comments.
Posted by Martin Martinez on 12/03/2009 @ 07:55AM PT
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Hey buddy, no problem, my pleasure to add...:)
Nick
Posted by N J on 12/04/2009 @ 09:03AM PT
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OUTTAKE VOICES™: Gay Activist Greg Gerard Speaks OUT about being Catholic & Gay. In this exclusive audio interview Emmy Winner Charlotte Robinson talks with openly gay author Gregory Gerard about his memoir “In Jupiter's Shadow” which chronicles a Catholic boy's struggle with his sexual orientation...
OUTTAKE VOICES™ - http://voices.outtakeonline.com
Posted by Charlotte Robinson on 12/08/2009 @ 12:26PM PT
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Perhaps we need to start some ex-Catholic programs to help these poor, brainwashed people overcome the BS that's been drilled into their heads since early childhood.
Religion actually IS a choice.
Posted by Jennifer Brill on 12/08/2009 @ 01:16PM PT
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The Lord created us to be married as man & women. Not man & man. The Lord destroyed sodom & gamorrah because of its homosexuality. "Thou shalt not lie with man, as with woman: it is abomination." Leviticus 18:22. I dont think catholics will be able to "cure" homosexuality because its a sin. The only way to stop homosexuality is for the homosexual to give their life to the Lord and repent of their sin.
Posted by Freyja Messmore on 12/15/2009 @ 10:45PM PT
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Read, watch, and Learn!
Everything was an abomination! "Watch a prayer for Bobby!"
"Soddom and gomorrah were about folks who had become selfish and greedy to the point that they not only mistreated the poor and needy...They also viciously attacked/punished anybody who was compasionate.
The reason why soddom and gomorrah is used so much as illogical justification for being prejudiced is because of that one part in the bible where it indicated the soddomites wanted to gang rape the angels BUT what most folks dont know is that raping a man through sodomy was often used back then as a method of accute humiliation...
So, no...Soddom and gomorrah never had anything to do with homosexuality."
Posted by Reverend Boony on 11/19/2009 @ 01:47AM PT
Posted by Peter S. T. on 12/16/2009 @ 03:20AM PT
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Freyja,
Soddom and Gomorrah is used to describe a society that is cruel, filled with child molesters, robbers, rapists, hedonistic people to the point where they kill for pleasure. It is not referring to Gayness simply because "sodomy" comes from Soddom and who knows what Gomorrah is - has anyone tried it? I'm sure it's illegal, immoral or fattening. I'll tell you something Freyja, every man I've laid with has been an abomination in one form or another but the biggest sin of all - he didn't call back. Come on Freyja, the world has a lot of housecleaning to do. Stoning women,Gaybashing, serious animal abuse and no laws to protect the innocent and the innocent are EVERYONE who is condemned for no reason. It's ridiculous to make such a fuss over same sex desires and relationships. Life goes by too damn fast. Enjoy what their is to enjoy and try to help the Earth to survive.
Posted by Lyndsey Price on 12/24/2009 @ 08:16PM PT
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The Scripture verse taken from Leviticus 18:22 as if condemning committed homosexual relationships is misapplied. The Scripture verse is part of the purity code for the celebration of Jewish community and it's worship. There are many, many listings of what "thou shalt not do" in this list and the like. Leviticus 18 talks about all the people that we should not uncover their nakedness. Yet, even beyond homosexuality there are lots of porn written about relationships between siblings, yet most Bible beaters do not condemn that, instead they beat the "you shall not lay with a man as with a woman" to death. As for Leviticus 20:13 it falls in a whole list of things that many people are suppose to be put to death for. There are many people who curse their mothers and fathers for various reasons, yet, in Leviticus 20: 9 it says: "All who curse mother or father shall be put to death." Yet, I do not hear any Christian fundamentalist calling for people who curse their mothers or fathers to be put to death. Through out the entire holiness code there are many things that the Lord calls for, not eating shrimp, not mixing polyester with cotton or not sitting in the same place where a menstruating woman sat before you. Yet, we don't make entire movements for against eating shrimp, or how clothing should not be made by mixing polyester and cotton. The verse is not about committed homosexual relationships, it is a ritualistic code that to this day is not followed to the core.
As for Sodom and Gomorrah, it was not destroyed for homosexuality, it was destroyed for it's lack of hospitality. The sin of Sodam and Gomorrah is played out in our time, but it is when the stranger is not accepted, or women who come here from other places are raped and exploited by our political systems. Rev. Irene Monroe in the movie: For the Bible Tells Me So talked about how she, a black, lesbian is often not welcomed in many New England towns or cities, rightly points out that THAT is the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah being played out in our time.
As a former Evangelical the whole notion of "committing your life to Christ" is not supported by Scripture, neither is it a prerequisite for Salvation. That is a fundamentalist doctrine that was born during the last Century. When committing one's life to Christ is over shadows "love of God and neighbor" and excuses discrimination and prejudice, and even the exportation of a "kill the gays" bill from American Evangelicals like Rick Warren and Richard Cohen and "The Family" to Uganda and Rowanda, that is hardly a good lesson in "committing one's self to Christ." When American Evangelicalism is a $5.8 million dollar business that is used for political exploitation, that is hardly "evangelism". When it is designed to destroy one group of people so that another can politically advance that is hardly evangelism. It is political exploitation at the expense of what the Gospel of Jesus Christ is really about. There is a great book written about all this by Dr. Mel White the founder of Soul Force (the former ghost writer for Jerry Falwell, who also use to work along side Pat Robertson and James Dobson, is now a pastor at an Metropolitan Community Church) wrote "Religion Gone Bad" where he documents all this, it is well worth reading.
Posted by Philip Lowe Jr on 12/16/2009 @ 05:19AM PT
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Hi, Philip.
I have read Religion Gone Bad and it indeed is well-worth reading. The whole fanatic evangelical movement apprears to have got the whole thing wrong. Remember (and not being Christian I am paraphrasing this): "What does it profit a man if he gain the whole world and yet lose his soul?" and Jesus' words to Pontius Pilate: "My kingdom is not of this world."? Yet the Religious Wrong literally has a lust for power, an unfortunate result of Constantine's having adopted Christianity as the state religion back round 313 CE. It is not enough for these people to believe their version of what they THINK Jesus said and stood for, it has to be forced down the throats of the rest of us, even if we are not Christian.
I am Pagan. I love the old ways and the old relgion (yes, fundies, Paganism truly IS "that old-time religion". I will tell others about it when asked or if it comes up in conversation. However, I do not try to ram it down everyone's throats--why? The Lord and Lady will sort it out when each person dies--or so I believe.
I think that Rev. White has done all of us a great service by showing us how dangerous religious fundamentalism is. Yes, this is fundamentalist Christianity which he is discussing in his book, but it could be almost any fundamentalist "anity" out there. Sprituality can be a positive force for those who practice it. Religion (in reference to rigid dogma and the desire to force those dogmas on others) can be and has been a force for great evil and injustice in this world.
Posted by Ioan Lightoller on 12/16/2009 @ 11:35AM PT
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When Jesus Said” Suffer little children come unto me,“ what does that mean to you? I hope you don't think it means that, “suffer you miserable brats!" What it means go to Him and He would heal the pain and make them feel safe, and not deceive them like a pedophile, actually relieve them of their pain that they were enduring from their parents deriving from society’s ignorance, that thought that striking a child and instilling fear into him was the only way to make him behave correctly, I think?
Posted by Peter S. T. on 12/19/2009 @ 05:17AM PT
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I realize this is nitpicky and not completely related to the article, but with
"groups to try and change one's sexual orientation from LGBT to heterosexual."
the "T" (although I realize is grouped as an acronym) is not a sexual orientation. Although I think the churches would love to "fix" this subgroup, it isn't technically a sexual orientation. Like I said, sorry to be nitpicky, it's just working with a lot of sexuality / gender research, I think it's important to posit things correctly.
Good article though, and really sad that the churches are persisting above psychological research and reccomendation to inform and indoctrinate people based on their sexual orientation.
Posted by Matthew Leavitt on 12/22/2009 @ 12:07PM PT
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What is so special about being heterosexual?
Ever have an affair with a married Roman Catholic man?
They "go for therapy" and you know who that's with - the Family Priest no doubt - and before you know it the man isn't calling anymore.
His wife is a total disaster but he has to respect her and stay with her because the Church has spoken. I'm an Orthodox Christian, and you haven't lived until you can't get communion if you have your period, hear gossip about women who wear pants to church, etc. I also belong to an English Spiritualist Church who are much more compassionate and nice. But, "the devil comes in many disguises" and I am being "deceived". I am attached to both Churches and while the English Church accepts the Orthodox, the Orthodox Church would close down before even acknowledging the other. The point is, you will always have a problem with strict "tradition" and "interpretation" in these places, and progressive thinking may be happening to individuals but many will shut their minds and close their ears and just obey. What can you do, really?
Posted by Lyndsey Price on 12/22/2009 @ 08:01PM PT
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This is a good thread with a lot of interesting information.
Conclusion:
Religion and Sex go together like a horse and carriage.
Posted by Lyndsey Price on 12/22/2009 @ 08:37PM PT
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This is a good thread with a lot of interesting information.
Conclusion:
Religion and Sex go together like a horse and carriage.
Posted by Lyndsey Price on 12/22/2009 @ 08:37PM PT
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Well I am formerly Orthodox Christian and I voted with my feet when I got sick and tired of putting up with the sexism and homophobia in the Church. The Orthodox Church is stuck in the 4th Century CE and those who want to live in the modern world need to find another faith. Believe me I am happier out of it than in it.
Posted by Ioan Lightoller on 12/22/2009 @ 08:52PM PT
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FORGET ABOUT RELIGION AND SEXUALITY. THERE IS A LOT OF CRUELTY IN THE WORLD AND IT'S GOT TO STOP. IT COMES IN MANY DIFFERENT FORMS. RECOGNIZE IT WHEN YOU SEE IT. IT'S THE #1 EVIL.
now if this post is duplicated i will know it's not my computer that is doing it.
Posted by Lyndsey Price on 12/24/2009 @ 08:36PM PT
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I don't get why the Church has to be so involved. It's not like LGBT people effect them. So, they believe we're going to hell. Whatever.
Posted by Ashley Morra on 01/02/2010 @ 07:48AM PT
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