New Jersey Catholic Church Says Gay People are a Threat to the Public Good
Published August 27, 2009 @ 06:56AM PT
Another state, another round of Catholic leaders urging discrimination toward gays and lesbians. Maine's Catholic Church has been busy channeling tens of thousands of dollars toward efforts to ban gays and lesbians from civil marriage (meanwhile, the Maine Catholic Church is closing parishes because they can't afford to keep them open). Now the Catholic Church in New Jersey is ramping up efforts to deny gays and lesbians the same rights as straight people.
The Catholic Church in New Jersey has long opposed efforts to grant gay and lesbian couples the same rights as straight couples. But in recent days, they've stepped up their campaign. Last Sunday, Catholic Churches throughout the state handed out flyers during mass that argued that gays and lesbians in committed relationships were intrinsically evil, and that same-sex marriage should be defined the exact same way by both the government and the Catholic Church.
The flyer, signed by bishops from Newark, Metuchen, Trenton, Paterson and Camden, said that gay and lesbian couples threaten children, and threaten the public good. According to the letter, "As Catholics, we must not stand by in silence in the face of the many challenges that threaten marriage and, in turn, children and the public good."
It also says that same-sex marriage is not a civil right. On the contrary, the flyer argues that some rights should only be granted to straight people since only they are worthy of the concept of marriage.
Wow. And the Catholic Church wonders why it's declining in popularity in this country. One can only wonder if they need to hire a public relations firm to tell them that these type of actions make them sound more like bigots than pastors.
And now the Catholic Church in New Jersey is preparing for a post-Labor Day series of sermons in which numerous churches throughout the Garden State will see pastors preaching about the evils of marriage equality.
This ramped up campaign by the NJ Catholic Church likely has to do with the fact that New Jersey could very well become the next state to enact marriage equality. Debates on marriage equality are set to start during a lame duck session after November's election. And current Gov. Jon Corzine - who is running for re-election this year - has vowed to support marriage equality if he's re-elected.
That's gotta be a threat to the Catholic Church, who would rather relegate gays and lesbians to a second class status. But it's that second class status that deserves to be uprooted. In December 2008, a bipartisan commission in New Jersey looked at the state's current civil unions laws, and found them inadequate in providing equal rights to all of New Jersey's citizens. The commission said that only full civil marriage rights would give gay and lesbian couples the same rights that straight people are entitled to in the state
Equal and fair rights. Now there's a concept that the Catholic Church could really use a hand in understanding. Instead, they pen a flyer that says gay people are a threat to children and the public good.
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Comments (54)
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Michael is the Communications Director for the Human Rights Program at Harvard Law School, and previously was Communications Director for Pax Christi USA, a progressive Catholic human rights organization.
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My husband and I have been married for 43 years. We have three fabulous sons and six grandchildren. During all these years, given the business we have been in, we have had the pleasure to count, as close friends, people from all walks of life. Our gay friends have been and remain the closest to us. When thinking about longetivity of marriage/union (or whatever you would like to call it), those of our gay friends (I hate labels) who have remained together the longest far outnumber those of our straight friends who divorce, it often seems, on a whim. Loving relationships, not gender, remain most important. If only those who are so bigoted could have had the joys we have had in our lives because no one ever brainwashed us.
Posted by ilenne tyman on 08/27/2009 @ 08:10AM PT
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The hierarchy of the RCC is as blind to compassion as if someone had stabbed every single one of them in the eyes.
Religion - not gays or any other minority - is a threat to the public good.
Religion is bad... very bad.
Posted by Fester 60613 on 08/27/2009 @ 09:10AM PT
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I disagree. I am a Christian and a strong advocate for equal rights for LGBT people in all spheres. I believe that following the teachings of Christ requires us to stand up for justice, especially for those whom society shuns. My faith is one of the reasons I support, work for, and donate to LGBT rights organizations. I think when you categorzie religion as a "threat to the public good", you are making an argument just as unreasonable as those religious people who claim gay marriage will somehow harm them.
Posted by Amanda Kloer on 08/27/2009 @ 09:32AM PT
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Fester,
Although I consider myself an Agnostic and at one point I would have agreed with you. However, over the past couple of years, I've been trying to be more accepting and tolerant of people of faith (yeah, yeah, I know, sometimes I revert to my old way of thinking and go overboard,) but I also understand (and sometimes have a problem remembering) that like any other group those of religious faith are not monolithic in their beliefs, Where I believe the problem actually lies is with fundamentalism and the literal interpretation of their texts and don't understand how to interpret metaphors, similes and imagery.
Posted by Dave Hershey on 08/27/2009 @ 12:50PM PT
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I'm with you Dave. I'm atheist and a lot of times I have to remind myself to judge people of faith individually just as I would like for them to judge me as an individual and not see me as THE LESBIAN.
A lot of people in my family are people of faith and they accept me. I have to try not to lump them into the same category as those who use their faith to deny rights to others and vilify others.
Posted by Courtney C............ on 08/27/2009 @ 02:02PM PT
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Just to keep this brief... If the text were no longer there, we wouldn't have people with severe reality perception problems using the text to justify their bigotry. Plus people would stop feeling sorry for them, for tolerance puts their "religious beliefs" in jeopardy, (E.G. Letting off a sociopath who stabbed his gay neighbor 61 times) and start feeling sorry for the real victims, the people they condemn and call for others to hurt.
Posted by Chris Marshall on 08/27/2009 @ 04:20PM PT
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Chris,
Those individuals you are referring to, in my mind, would fall under the fundamentalist category.
Posted by Dave Hershey on 08/27/2009 @ 05:36PM PT
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Awww I miss when you called them the christian taliban Dave. But in all reality they are severely dangerous individuals that need psychological treatment before more occurrences like this happen.
Posted by Chris Marshall on 08/27/2009 @ 09:09PM PT
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ROFL! Chris. On ocassion I still refer to them as the Talibangelicals :) And yes, those are the ones who are dangerous and in need of infinite amounts of help.
Posted by Dave Hershey on 08/28/2009 @ 10:06AM PT
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Religion misused is bad sir while there are a growing number of religions in support of equality.
As evidenced by recent proceedings in the evangelical lutheran church.
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 08/28/2009 @ 05:19PM PT
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I'm glad to have spurred some small discussion.
Yes, I do paint with a broad brush - and, Thomas McHugh, I know of no single christian religion that has not previously and is not now being misused. Hatred in the name of faith is still hatred: Bigotry in the name of the church is still bigotry: Prejudice taught in the name of faith is still prejudice.
This has always been the official line and dogma of the christian religions. That's why I referred to the hierarchy of the RCC.
As for those good people who do good things and hold no hatred in their hearts, I am - as we all should be - grateful. But I do not identify them as being "religious" even though they may be: being a good person is not synonymous with being religious, nor does any religion hold an exclusive franchise on defining good people.
I decry the official stance of the church and therefore the church itself - not those who do good, whatever the impetus for their acts.
Thank you all for the discussion.
Posted by Fester 60613 on 09/01/2009 @ 11:03AM PT
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Thanks for this, I sent it to everyone I know that's Catholic.
Posted by Sean Stidham on 08/27/2009 @ 10:12AM PT
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Do you mean Roman Catholic?
Posted by Jon West on 09/04/2009 @ 12:24PM PT
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Does this article mean Roman Catholic?
Posted by heidi gardner on 09/05/2009 @ 09:51AM PT
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New Jeresy's Catholic Church is an intolerant organization which has an incorrect view of LGBT rights. At this point, it's not good idea, other than for intolerant conservatives, to visit a Catholic Church every Sunday. Same-sex marriage is a necessary right which must belong to the LGBT community. The flyers those churches distributed spew nonsense, thus not credible. Hopefully, Jon Corzine will sign a bill recognizing same-sex marriage in New Jersey next year.
Posted by Edwin Bonilla on 08/27/2009 @ 02:21PM PT
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The problem with what they passed out is lies and if the people of the church don't educate themselves, they'll fight against us even though they might support us. We saw a lot of people changing sides here in California, because they believed the garbage the church's handed out. We really need to talk to the Catholics we know and ask what they are doing to change the churches mind on the matter.
I got into pretty bad with a gay friend of mine, when I asked what his mother would do if she was handed this. He defended the church and how much it has helped her over the years and that she would never speak out against them. I said, but they are attacking her son and that didn't seem to matter to him. Even though he doesn't attend, he's brain-washed enough to think they are doing good work and nothing but that. Sad really.
Posted by Sean Stidham on 08/27/2009 @ 06:55PM PT
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Sean, I can relate to both you and your friends situation. My mother is eactly the same as your friend's mom. They have helped her especially over the last two years. Her husband (which also was a fillin minister, but was one of the kindest men you'd ever meet) had bladder cancer and they helped her when she needed it most. Apparently either she or her husband decided to share with the church's support group that I am gay (I came out nearly 20 years ago,) and decided to have attempt a "pray away the gay session" on me from afar. Got news for 'em.......didn't work.
So when I went back for the funeral, my mother introduced me to the minister (can we say two of the 7 deadly sins, he was hitting on my mother for one, major glutten was the other) as the "youngest" which apparently how they referred to me during the "pray away the gay" session.
He shook my hand, looked over to my mother and asked, "is this the gay son we were talking about?" UGH! I just knew I was in for it! Of course, both of my other brothers and my two step-brothers were there (I think my youngest step brother is gay, but that doesn't really matter.) He didn't have the nerve to ask me to my face, he was shaking my hand as he asked my mother this. Anyway, I commend them for helping her when none of us were able to (mainly because she moved up to northern AZ with her husband.) I didn't give her time to answer, I responded with a simple "yes I am." Well that opened the flood gates of attempted REindocrination (ya, went through it once - private Christian school and all.) He asked if he could "pray" for me. He was a bit taken aback when I replied, "as long as I'm not present I don't really care." I didn't give him the response he was seeking.
Mom wasn't too happy about my response either, but she and I have gotten into many discussions (many which turned into arguments) about religion that usually start out her questioning my being gay. Her church, from what I was told by my step-brother, was very active in the Prop 102 (Arizona's Prop 8.) But like your friend's mother, my mother won't criticize the church, but at the same time I personally won't defend it when it actively seeks to take away other people's rights.
Posted by Dave Hershey on 08/27/2009 @ 09:19PM PT
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Yep...It is sad mr. stidham but that right there illustrates that religion itself isnt evil just like a gun isnt evil...Untill someone picks it up and either uses it for good OR as in that case, uses it for evil by teaching others wrongly.
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 08/28/2009 @ 05:24PM PT
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I am wondering, dont these SOB's get a tax exempt from the Goverment ?
Jeopardizing Tax-Exempt Status
All IRC section 501(c)(3) organizations, including churches and religious organizations, must abide by certain rules:
their net earnings may not inure to any private shareholder or individual,
they must not provide a substantial benefit to private interests,
they must not devote a substantial part of their activities to attempting to influence legislation,
they must not participate in, or intervene in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office, and
the organization’s purposes and activities may not be illegal or violate fundamental public policy.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1828.pdf
Posted by Lara Nunes on 08/27/2009 @ 09:35PM PT
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Yep...I agree with you miss nunes that the bible thumping churches definatly abuse their tax exempt priveledges but unfortunatly, the goverment probably profits enough from that abuse that they aint likely to enforce the laws regarding them... :(
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 08/28/2009 @ 05:29PM PT
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Who's a lawer around here? How do we use this to take away there tax exemption? Seriously I'll start a letter campaign, who do I need to talk to? Hit them in their pocketbooks and they'll change their tune.
Posted by Sean Stidham on 08/28/2009 @ 12:34AM PT
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Knowing that a bishop in camden is a homohater is a bit of an embarrasment to me...I was born in camden... :(
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 08/28/2009 @ 05:31PM PT
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Thomas
Actually if WE THE PEOPLE just sit around and dont do anything about it then these SOB's will get away with it.
Laws are place here for a reason, and it is up to us to enforce them.
Posted by Lara Nunes on 08/28/2009 @ 06:05PM PT
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Alright miss nunes...
Exactly how do we go about it ?
And yes...I do agree that its us people that has the final say...At least as far as making our goverment mind.
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 09/04/2009 @ 08:42PM PT
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actually see if the ACLU will do anything to sue these SOB's
Request Legal Assistance / Find Your Local ACLU Affiliate
http://www.aclu.org/affiliates/
ACLU of New Jersey
Executive Director: Deborah Jacobs
P.O. Box 32159
Newark, NJ 07102
Phone: 973-642-2084
Email: info@aclu-nj.org
Posted by Lara Nunes on 08/28/2009 @ 06:09PM PT
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Sounds good although Im surprised it hasnt already occured to them...
Either that or their hands are already filled...
Anything else we can do ?
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 09/04/2009 @ 08:45PM PT
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I agreeabout the ACLU. Sending these flyers out, I would think is defamation at least, and hateful. And THAT is intrinsically evil to me. I'll be contacting them. The Catholic church shouldn't have much to say about anyone. I suppose they wouldn't want people sending out flyers saying they are all pedophiles AND crooks.
Posted by Matt Sawicki on 09/02/2009 @ 02:23PM PT
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I'm Catholic. And I am SO sorry.
Posted by Salcia Coe on 09/03/2009 @ 05:18AM PT
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Miss coe...
You are not responsible for what others do...
Theres no reason for you to apologise...
Just please help us fight intollerance and bigotry.
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 09/04/2009 @ 08:47PM PT
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It's interesting that this Homophobia Manifesto was signed by "...bishops from Newark, Metuchen, Trenton, Paterson and Camden..."--and no one else. With the possible exception of Metuchen, all of these cities are high-crime areas with a predominantly Black population, a demographic that's been historically homophobic, though as historic victims of discrimination themselves, should be pretty damned ashamed of themselves for inflicting it on others.
In these ghettos of NJ, I find it VERY hard to believe that ALL of these God-fearing parishioners consist of stereotypically American families. I'll bet many of them have alcoholic fathers, addicted mothers, and drug-dealing, petty thieving children. But let's not discuss that--it's the GLBT families that are the REAL problem, right?
Posted by David Thaler on 09/03/2009 @ 01:04PM PT
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David, I doubt that any of the parishoners of these bishops' sees had any part of producing this hateful letter. Parishoners are to "believe, do not question, obey!" - nothing more and nothing less.
The only recourse a catholic has against such propaganda is to walk away and not return.
Posted by Fester 60613 on 09/03/2009 @ 03:33PM PT
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If anything is a threat to the public good, it is the hierarchy and history of the Catholic church.
All good Catholics, who believe that Jesus Life was a message of Love for all of God's creation, should simply close their pocketbooks.
And you will see change come so fast. It reminds me of an incident yesterday at a health care rally. A conservative Catholic told me that when he wanted to marry a Baptist woman 20 years ago, his priest said he would officiate at the ceremony along with the Baptist minister only if the couple would sign a statement agreeing the child would be brought up Catholic.
I asked him why this happened, and he simply rubbed his fingers together, and said "more Catholics, more money for the church."
They got married in and have stayed in a Methodist church. Not terribly progressive but at least not foaming at the mouth kind of people.
All of you good Catholic people - why does the church have to spend YOUR money on hatred of a minority, while it closes schools and parishes.
And fails in its true mission, which is to feed the poor, minister to the sick and dying, etc. And meanwhile the priesthood is shrinking dramatically, as many good potential priests do not want to be instruments of the corruption from the top.
Just to defend its past history by compounding it's crimes. Rather then admit it has been wrong.
And if you ever wonder why the church had its great sex scandal........
1. What else can you expect from sex starved people - priests.
2. Rape is not about sex. The sex part is just a tool designed to establish via humiliation the power structure. Almost exactly what happens in prison rape.
3. And why were the victims mostly boys - because there weren't any choir girls until recently
4. And the final question - the biggest one - why did the church hide these vile priests for decades, simply transfering them to new parishes where they continued their abuse?
The only possible answers are they needed the priests to keep people coming to the church. It's all about money and power and control
And the other reason that seems to fit - the rot reaches way up in the hierarchy.
From the people who in the past brought you the hatred of the Jews, Jesus own people. Which culminated in the Holocaust.
And the people who teamed with corrupt emperors and priests to give the world a thousand year dark ages, and the murder of tens of millions of Muslims during the crusades.
And societies have long memories. expressed so horribly on 9/11
Posted by Steve Smith on 09/03/2009 @ 11:00PM PT
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Well said mr. smith...
Not all christians are evil or intollerant as you yourself said BUT you raise a damn good question...
Why are the good supporting the bad ?
Why indeed.
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 09/04/2009 @ 08:52PM PT
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If anything is a threat to the public good, it is the hierarchy and history of the Catholic church.
All good Catholics, who believe that Jesus Life was a message of Love for all of God's creation, should simply close their pocketbooks.
And you will see change come so fast. It reminds me of an incident yesterday at a health care rally. A conservative Catholic told me that when he wanted to marry a Baptist woman 20 years ago, his priest said he would officiate at the ceremony along with the Baptist minister only if the couple would sign a statement agreeing the child would be brought up Catholic.
I asked him why this happened, and he simply rubbed his fingers together, and said "more Catholics, more money for the church."
They got married in and have stayed in a Methodist church. Not terribly progressive but at least not foaming at the mouth kind of people.
All of you good Catholic people - why does the church have to spend YOUR money on hatred of a minority, while it closes schools and parishes.
And fails in its true mission, which is to feed the poor, minister to the sick and dying, etc. And meanwhile the priesthood is shrinking dramatically, as many good potential priests do not want to be instruments of the corruption from the top.
Just to defend its past history by compounding it's crimes. Rather then admit it has been wrong.
And if you ever wonder why the church had its great sex scandal........
1. What else can you expect from sex starved people - priests.
2. Rape is not about sex. The sex part is just a tool designed to establish via humiliation the power structure. Almost exactly what happens in prison rape.
3. And why were the victims mostly boys - because there weren't any choir girls until recently
4. And the final question - the biggest one - why did the church hide these vile priests for decades, simply transfering them to new parishes where they continued their abuse?
The only possible answers are they needed the priests to keep people coming to the church. It's all about money and power and control
And the other reason that seems to fit - the rot reaches way up in the hierarchy.
From the people who in the past brought you the hatred of the Jews, Jesus own people. Which culminated in the Holocaust.
And the people who teamed with corrupt emperors and priests to give the world a thousand year dark ages, and the murder of tens of millions of Muslims during the crusades.
And societies have long memories. expressed so horribly on 9/11
Posted by Steve Smith on 09/03/2009 @ 11:27PM PT
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If anything is a threat to the public good, it is the hierarchy and history of the Catholic church.
All good Catholics, who believe that Jesus Life was a message of Love for all of God's creation, should simply close their pocketbooks.
And you will see change come so fast. It reminds me of an incident yesterday at a health care rally. A conservative Catholic told me that when he wanted to marry a Baptist woman 20 years ago, his priest said he would officiate at the ceremony along with the Baptist minister only if the couple would sign a statement agreeing the child would be brought up Catholic.
I asked him why this happened, and he simply rubbed his fingers together, and said "more Catholics, more money for the church."
They got married in and have stayed in a Methodist church. Not terribly progressive but at least not foaming at the mouth kind of people.
All of you good Catholic people - why does the church have to spend YOUR money on hatred of a minority, while it closes schools and parishes.
And fails in its true mission, which is to feed the poor, minister to the sick and dying, etc. And meanwhile the priesthood is shrinking dramatically, as many good potential priests do not want to be instruments of the corruption from the top.
Just to defend its past history by compounding it's crimes. Rather then admit it has been wrong.
And if you ever wonder why the church had its great sex scandal........
1. What else can you expect from sex starved people - priests.
2. Rape is not about sex. The sex part is just a tool designed to establish via humiliation the power structure. Almost exactly what happens in prison rape.
3. And why were the victims mostly boys - because there weren't any choir girls until recently
4. And the final question - the biggest one - why did the church hide these vile priests for decades, simply transfering them to new parishes where they continued their abuse?
The only possible answers are they needed the priests to keep people coming to the church. It's all about money and power and control
And the other reason that seems to fit - the rot reaches way up in the hierarchy.
From the people who in the past brought you the hatred of the Jews, Jesus own people. Which culminated in the Holocaust.
And the people who teamed with corrupt emperors and priests to give the world a thousand year dark ages, and the murder of tens of millions of Muslims during the crusades.
And societies have long memories. expressed so horribly on 9/11
Posted by Steve Smith on 09/03/2009 @ 11:27PM PT
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Incidentally, I'm LOVIN' that change-dot-org used a photo of two men dressed in caftans and hugging as irony.
Posted by David Thaler on 09/04/2009 @ 12:13PM PT
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Can I bring something to your attention? The Roman Catholic Church is NOT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH!
I am an Old Catholic Priest, from a jurisdiction THAT IS NOT IN COMMUNION WITH ROME. We are though, a Catholic Church. We do support gay and lesbian people, and know that marriage is based on love and commitment, not procreation.
www.st-lukes-church-peoria.org
Posted by Jon West on 09/04/2009 @ 12:21PM PT
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Indeed mr. west...
I wasnt aware that any of the old catholic church still existed here in the u.s.
So have ya'll been speaking out against the roman catholic church ?
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 09/04/2009 @ 08:55PM PT
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Mr. McHugh, I have been speaking out against the Roman Church and anyone else who uses religion (or any other vehicle) to do harm.
There was a church group in Denver who used to pray for me to die (I am HIV+) I guess it backfired- still alive and healthy afte 22 years.
I agree that anyone who uses their tax exempt status for Political purposes should have their 501 pulled. Give the money to the poor;
Yeah, I guess that I am a socialist too.
Scott+
Posted by Jon West on 09/04/2009 @ 09:47PM PT
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Thank you mr. west...And I apologise for having lumped the catholic church in with the roman catholic church.
Blessed be.
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 09/24/2009 @ 09:31PM PT
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Mr. west...
Could you please clarify the "scott+" signature.
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 10/08/2009 @ 06:47PM PT
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Thank you, Jon. I am Old Catholic and I do not believe the Roman Church is the Catholic Church. The REAL Catholic Church does not push all the things listed by Mr. Smith in his posts.
Hey, I'm socialist, too. Nice to see another Old Catholic here.
Bp. Ioan
Friends Catholic Community Church
Posted by Ioan Lightoller on 09/08/2009 @ 09:10AM PT
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Ah, there's nothing like reading about an organization that has to attack others to take away the public eye from the shame, humiliation & perversity of their own ranks.
Posted by Brighton Rose on 09/09/2009 @ 06:08AM PT
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Has anyone contacted the ACLU yet? I'm new to this organization, but this thread really hits home - please let me know if we can continue to pursue the tax exemption angle. Even if it ends up being nothing than publicity for the cause, it's still publicity for the cause!
Posted by Sarah LeClair on 09/11/2009 @ 05:24PM PT
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has anyone really been told in person by this so called god?we are free to make our own lives.
Posted by anthony gretzky on 09/12/2009 @ 06:18AM PT
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Well, Well, Well, this is why we have in our constitution, separation of church and state. It is appalling that the Catholic church is trying to impose it's bigotry on our citizens. My doctor is gay, and he is a Catholic. He is one of the best people I know. It amazes me that these people would have a wonderful person like him denied the same privileges that are afforded to heterosexual couples. I am glad that the Catholic church is not in charge of our country. The Pilgrims left England to get away from the all powerful church of England. We really need to look at what, "Separation of Church and state" means. Our founding father's knew that the church had to be separate from our government, or we would be in the same state that medieval Europe was in.
Posted by Scott Finnell on 09/13/2009 @ 04:47PM PT
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Once again, I will say that this Catholic church you are referring to is Roman Catholic not "the Catholic Church"
Posted by Jon West on 09/15/2009 @ 02:02PM PT
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wow, nice to know the church cares more about hate and spreading discrimintaion instead of love and acceptance(Not)
Posted by Kayleigh Thies on 09/17/2009 @ 06:25PM PT
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You might think you would know the difference between a church that spews hate, and the ones that try to get you to think about love. The Roman Catholic Church, Christian Fundies and The Mormons are banded together (when you think about it , it is like the three stooges). Why? MONEY. It is interesting that while people complain about these Nazi's they still attend on Christmas and Easter and fork over the dough. They want to be seen in nice new building, not old seedy buildings like we have.
That is why the Roman Catholic church keeps getting away with it. They have they money to build nice new churches, because You keep going there forking over the money;
take a look at this website: www.st-lukes-peoria.org and tell me what you see.
On Sunday I was at Peoria Pride selling T-Shirts for the community center; not in a comfy air conditioned church.
Posted by Jon West on 09/17/2009 @ 07:13PM PT
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Thats the thing right there sir...
Those who are truly spiritual, like yourself, will care more about the inner state of human souls and spirits rather than outer appearances...
Its folks like you that makes for a better world to live in.
Thank you.
Posted by Thomas McHugh on 09/24/2009 @ 09:35PM PT
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But... one must take care to discern the slippery slope: caring about the inner state of a oppressed human's soul while deliberately doing nothing to stop the oppression is also evil, and too easily labeled otherwise!
Posted by Fester 60613 on 09/25/2009 @ 06:19AM PT
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I'm from NJ and my family got one of those flyers...im not out of the closet yet, its wayyy too dangerous. Chris cristie won the election and its even more dangerous now.
this isnt fair...people are dying, and no ones want to help
Posted by Lance Prescot on 11/06/2009 @ 01:03AM PT
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I honestly do not know how the Roman Catholic Church can consider either themselves or the things they do to people as Christian.
I am an Old Catholic Christo-Pagan and I feel so horrible that a group which uses "catholic" in its name can do the things it has done and continues to do.
All I can do is to pray and to stand in solidarity of spirit with the LGBTQ community that is still being persecuted not because of what they believe (well, they are on that score too, but that would be another whole entry and I don't have blog priviledges here lol) but because of who they ARE.
What always galls me is that fundamentalists (and I consider the Roman Catholics to be in that category) DARE to whine about "persecution" after the way they have persecuted people and continue to do so.
Posted by Ioan Lightoller on 11/06/2009 @ 07:59AM PT
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Really? And as Kathy Griffin says...THOSE KID FUCKERS HAVE SOME NERVE!! And it's not just the catholic church but church in general. Things have changed but they do WITCH hunts on gay ppl in church...yet most of the men who work there are..especially the singers. I swear I'm writing a book about this foolishness because this is the type of stuff that causes ppl to commit suicide and everything.. Telling someone who hasn't committed a crime that they are a threat to the public good. So what are they to do now? Be converted by your gay ministers? i dont think so!
Posted by Javonni Brustow on 11/12/2009 @ 01:06PM PT
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