Great, now the top notched DISCIPLINED military machine has a vulnerability for the number two spot.  Some folks don't understand, it only works one way in the military.  An order is an order and lives count on it.  So does your freedom!

Speaking of:

The military showers together.  There will now have to be a third barracks for the stalking "its"

Oh yah, soldiers should wear rubber gloves and dog tags that state "homosexual" so another soldier doesn't have an increased chance of commuting aides.

Don't forget, now gay marriages would have to be recognized and surpass state law.  By the way, state law would supersede in this case when the member comes back.

Gays are already in the military and it is working.  Why disrupt with flaunt it stinker in your face disgust.

Things are as normal as possible.  So go too far?  Clinton did a good job.  I guess this should be undone now.

I'm not a phobic, I did serve in the military and was discharged honorably.

Go ahead Mr. President, the vote loss is waiting for you when you stir this pot.

Mr. labbe...

For someone who claims to not be phobic about homosexuals...

Your entire post is nothing but phobic filled drivel.

LOL, not hardly.  I'm just relaying a majority view point.

Mr. labbe...

Just because the majority of america has their heads up their asses doesnt make them right.

I hate to see you so defensive.  I expect name calling from the other party not our own.  But Mr. McHugh, the majority is the majority.

And the majority is still wrong...

Just as the majority would have still been wrong back in the 1960's when they opposed civil rights for african americans and women.

Yo Mr. Football, your majority was against white marrying blacks; did that stop the supreme court? NOPE! Same with segregation and women's suffrage.

You have just been PWNED.

Now go and actually read some real legal affairs on civil rights. That is if your brain can handle it. If it might be bound to explode then please have someone film it so we can laugh at what a failure you are as a human being. Peace.

Oh I forgot to mention one more thing. My fiance belongs to the Finnish military, which defeated over 500,000 soviets with only 20,000 men and lost less than 500 with less than 2,000 injured; not to mention the fact that they are far more disciplined, trained, and intelligent than our military on top of the fact that they are sexually secure and mature enough where they don't fire someone because he or she is not a reborn-again heterosexual.

So that is 0-2 can you go for a three fails in a row. I bet you sure can.

Your on a roll mr. marshall.

:),

Are you aware that gays have been in the military forever (just a good guess)?

As for the Finns,

"Gay Pride" wasn't around during the war LOL.  Apples and oranges  or faulty slippery slope to discussion, Philosophy 101.  Therefore your branches of discussion are irrelevant nor logical but more emotional conjecture.

The military is a different entity.  It has a separate judicial system, and lives depend on discipline.  Just the facts, sorry to offend your lifestyle.

PS. Cognitive research was part of my MA portfolio. Therefore, you are correct in me not reaching my potential.

I enjoy the discussion.

Mr. labbe...

Your right about the military requiring discipline but you are seriously fucked in the head if you truly believe that only heterosexual soldiers have discipline...

The tailhook scandle that took place awhile back is a good example of the lack of discipline that some heterosexual soldiers possess.

Im leaving the rest of your drivel for mr. marshall to dismantle...

Let me share this analogy, there will always be weeds in the yard, but it is undesirable to have them.

So you have a MA cognitive research in what? NARTHs or FOTFs pseudo discredited science departments? LOL

You completely destroyed any argument you brought forth by insinuating that homosexuality is a lifestyle because no medical branch in the US, Canada, Europe, and all other well developed medical organizations for both mental and psychical health call sexual orientation a lifestyle and make very strong stances that homosexuality is not a choice, nor are gay people any different than straight people.

I should stop here because you are 0-3 but just because you basically do not know anything on this subject, but I think I am going to have a little more fun, completely destroy you, make Thom laugh his ass off, and drink my coffie. ALL AT THE SAME TIME! So sit down, and strap in kitten because its time for another wonderful ride through the science park of your destruction.

I am a scientist mr Football however I am quite well aware of Phil 101. You just fail in it. I didn't bring up slippery slope I brought up what is happening now. To have slippery slope one has to say that X "will" (will meaning in the future) cause Y. Granted I know there werent many "openly gay" people in our military at the time of WWII, there actually were in Finland.

You obviously don't know what slippery slope is. Probably because you imply it yourself in your first inflammatory, false logic, and anti-gay bias post about the showering with gays that are open. As if showing with normally open gays, but closeted in the military, will not be good for the straights and a third barracks will have to be created.

To add insult to the injury, you keep sustaining onto yourself your lack of medical knowledge and your inability to abbreviate "Acquired immunodeficiency syndrome" (AIDS) is even more prudent to proving that although you might have a MA you certainly lack simple medical knowledge of a Bio 106 student.

AIDS is not a disease. It forms from the gestation of HIV (Human immunodeficiency virus) which infects and destroys helper T-cell CD4 and CD8 leukocytes (while blood cells) that are crucial in the assistance of other white blood cells, including B-Cells, and Macrophages to destroy pathogenic microorganisms and resist future outbreaks. AIDS is not contagious. Any simple college and high school student knows that off the cuff, even if they haven't taken any science since high school. Surprisingly you tout your MA but you do not know this.

HIV IS the pathogenic microorganism that can cause AIDS, but... Unless there is bodily fluid contact with open wounds, or sex (any sex for both straights and LGBT) contracting it is not easy. In fact even with bodily fluid contact and sex it is not that easy to acquire unless it is prolonged and consistent. Hep C (hepatitis C) is far easier to contract... however the largest population with hep C is straight males not gay males. Perhaps we should make a third barracks for them too eh?

Next you call LGBT weeds. How is LT and CO linguist, scientist, medics, doctors, pilots, field marshals, etc weeds when they are the best in their field but are LGBT? Many COs have stated that their discharged LGBT soldiers were among the best of the best, and some even begged with review boards not to release and dishonorably discharge such important members under their command. Ouch eh? COs don't do that much for the heterosexual soldiers, so that must say something.

So I conclude my absolute destruction of your irresponsible, inconsistent, false and bias research on LGBT human beings that you hold yourself so astute for. No medical professional or anyone with a degree in "cognitive research," that is credible, believes what you do because it is vastly contrary to the evidence, reason, logic, and simple ethical principles followed by the science community. You are not even a poor scientist. You are NO scientist by any standards what so ever. So please crawl back into the retched anus of bias you came from or shut up because you only make yourself look more like a fool than you already are. However, I do enjoy destroying you because you are obviously completely oblivious to your own inconsistencies and inadequacies.

Just as a final laugh to the rest of you guys and gals on here... Is it not sad that this website started with many wonderfully logical, reasonable, ethical, and science minded people, but now... Now this site is becoming corrupted by the filth we try so hard to combat, correct and educate. It just goes to show that people like Mr. "Football" Labbe, Joe "Stupid" Steadman and Thomas "Bumbling" Berg are hell bent on spreading their rechtedly annoying, but often funny to mock rhetoric; all the while stating "we are not (homo)phobics. Got to love religiously indoctrinated hypocrisy: the number one killer of healthy minds, hearts and souls.

@ Chris Marshall

Thank you my dear friend for the best laugh Ive had in a long while.

@ Mr. labbe

The only weeds in the military...Indeed, even moreso outside the military...Are the ignorant bible thumping homohaters such as yourself that will one day be consumed by your own stupidity...And on that day, as the last of your worthless ilk crumbles into worthless dust...Im gonna be setting with my friends and drinking a toast to your destruction.

Dude they are already consumbed by it that why they muble in bullshit at their churches in groups thinking they are talking to a god. LOL

At least catholics have latin.

True and I would say that latin is about the only good thing the roman catholic church has...

That and maybe some hot nuns... :)

Well thank you so very much. I was kicked out of basic training because I would not separate connections with my fiance when I went into basic training and therefore when my computer was stolen by a bigot and turned in to my superior officer I was investigated and discharged for "homosexual conduct." There are many gays and lesbians in our military and they do their job, I did my job, and because of our lives outside the military we are punished for such a simple thing as who we love.

Your idea of sanctity of the military is a false point. The military is not sacred, it is a secular organization. By implying sanctity you are implying that the military is some sort of religious institution, which it surely is not. I would have you know that there are many religions that support gay people being seen as normal human beings. Past the davidic dogmas there are over 2000 religions who could care less who someone is attracted to and why. The military should be no different.

On another point; every conflict, every war, every skirmish, battle, and fight, there have been gays fighting in our military, in the closet, and in silence. How is letting them live their lives, have families, have freedom "now" do anything to our country when they too have served prior to DADT? It does not.

If you have seen the problems of intimacy with people in your unit, what about intimacy between straight males in the military. You know people who form bonds and become best friends, or as I remember what we called each other, "brothers." Intimacy does not just imply sexual attraction. So what about those brotherly bonds? Should those also be discouraged as well? Should trying to form connections with people be as forbidden as being gay because those connections might carry to much emotion behind them. I made many friends in my training, does that mean I felt attracted to them? No. I joined in the military to get a job done, not to find a partner. I joined the military to serve my country.

This is the same reason why gays and lesbians join the military. To serve our country. So again I restate my position. If gays, lesbians, bisexual and transgenered people have been serving for the past two centuries, which they have been, is it not about time we allow them to live their lives like you live yours. To be treated like the outstandingly dedicated soldiers they are, and to finally serve as the who they are; not as the people, who only a selective few, would like them to be. If you cant handle the reality that gay people are just as normal with just as many problems as people such as yourself, who can be just as dedicated if not more so because they have to completely separate all connection from their families, their children, and their spouses, because of DADT, then maybe we should ban people like you who wish only to cause further divides in the arm forces rather than make it more efficient and cohesive.

And we know just how well torture works. I say eff you, Joe.

I concur with both mr. marshall and mr. hershey on this.

Homosexuals are not deviants and theyre no more sex maniacs than us heterosexuals.

Yep...

If anything, the only problem we have with letting women join the military is that every now and then we have some sick heterosexual male wanting to sexually harras them...

I know this post is kind of off topic for this forum but since we opened the topic I would say I have always enjoyed serving with women. Historically in the past when women and children join the battle the battle turns to total inhalation of the people instead of just the men. For that principle, I would keep war to just men and pray that war would never be needed and tyrants and murders would never rule again.

Nothing at all mr. labbe just as theres nothing wrong with allowing homosexuals to serve openly in the military.

In case you missed my point...

I was pointing out that while all you homohaters are whining about homosexuals, we still have incidences of assault on women by HETEROSEXUAL SOLDIERS/OFFICERS.

Mr. steadman...

Your welcome to continue living in your fantasy world but let me live in reality.

Thomas, Reality to the like of steadman is as toxic as sunlight to a vampire. It's such a shame they dont fry when you throw them into reality.

True...

We can always stake them though...

Cant we ?

We could but i dont like getting or want filthy blood and ashes to get on my new jacket. Silver bullets from a scoped M4-S work so much nicer. LOL

True...And its more fun to see just how many you can hit before they scurry back under their slimy rocks.

That is why we have automatics Thomas LOL

True but Im still a lousy shot when rushed. :P

Before I joined the military I formatted my computer. I used it primarily for work study, and communicating to Ruben. I only had one day a week to connect to a LAN line and talk to Ruben. Porn was not an issue because there was none on my computer. I was discharged for "homosexual conduct" because I stayed in communication with my family, which is my fiance.

As for porn do you even want to go there? My heterosexual counterparts wasted much of their time using their Internet to look at porn and nothing happened to them. Your argument is not only an insult to my family and myself, but it is also a false statement. Also, there is no scientific evidence that agrees with your statement on porn and what it can do to families. In fact it can be quite the opposite for couples that are sexually liberated.

As for the institution of marriage, only the davidic dogmas and religions that were corrupted by them look down on homosexuality, there are 2000+ religions that don't care about a personals sexual orientation. Another thing to consider is that sexual preference and orientation are two very separate things.

What about protecting the families of gays? Gay families are families too are they not? What about their marriages? I just find it funny that you lack not only compassion, but simple logic and commensense. It is too sad that you prove that military intelegence is as much of an oxymoron, and segregated tolerance.

That's good you didn't have porn so it's unfortunate that you were at the wrong place, at the wrong time, with the wrong lawyer.  I have one family member who is gay and love him very much but protect traditional marriage every chance I get. Gay marriage promotes an incompatible biological configuration that has the potential to decimate the human population by slow and progressive elimination of the family unit and ultimately the family tree. For that matter, I heard a women marry her dog a few weeks back and heard the pastor begging the audience to support her decision? Is polygamy ok where a man can have many wives, where do we draw the line? I promote protection for all men and freedom to choose your own life but protect the widespread institution of marriage to ensure we continue to exist. If you are reading this you can thank your mom and dad so don't forget heterosexuals play an important part. It's Heavenly Fathers plan for us to multiply and I hope you have the opportunity to become a father one day and experience the joy of being a father yourself.

Mr. steadman...

Considering that your own bible has supported many forms of marriage including polygamy at different times...There aint nothing traditional about marriage.

As for your claim about bestiality...Lets see a link to that...Ok ?

Homosexuals are born from heterosexual couplings just as heterosexuals are.

Your "heavenly father" aint neccessarily the spiritual father of everyone.

Ah so Steadman you really are a religious bigot, without an ability to formulate an appropriate and respectful response that is even based in pseudo logic. Thank you for falling into my trap to show your true colors, which are as colorful as black and white.

Hi Loan,

In my line of business I deal with mortality tables and see the interchange of life and death everyday. From a high level perspective, if life isn't allowed every chance to prosper and promoted with concepts like traditional marriage it will cease to exist in a very short amount of time. This is why the government gives tax credit to have children. Once the government starts passing laws that legalize gay marriage it legitimizes the practice of same sex relationships and promotes a lifestyle that is biologically incapable of bearing children. This is happening right now in Russia and they have even starting giving away prizes to families who have children to keep up with it. It's hard to see but it's kind of like a fire that gets out of control. Once it flashes it's too late to change the course of action and your civilization collapses.

Wow you are a pathetic human being. What is really sad is that people like you made the same misguided, ignorant, bigoted, and callous remarks against my ancestors the native americans, then moved on to african americans, then women, and now gays. All the while free thinkers and intellectuals, who could see past logical inconsistencies you are incapible of, did all they can to liberate such people from misguided fools such as yourself. I pity you, your poor puppet. Its too bad the strings of idiocy that bind you to your masters are almost as industructable as diamonds. However, even diamonds can be destroyed. So I await the day to see you tumble down from your pedistal into the "real world."

Well said mr. hershey.

I always find it hypocritical that those who base their opposition to equality on the goverment incentive for breeding crap dont want to deny such equality to heterosexuals who cant or wont breed while at the same time, they wanna deny equality to homosexuals under the false assumption that they cant breed.

Homohaters need to understand that being homosexual doesnt automaticly make you sterile.

Absolutely I would! The problem is that unless you are actually willing stand up and protect EVERYONE against bigotry and discrimination, everything else is only window dressing and lip service. That is the difference between you and me. I would and regularly DO stand up against bigotry and discrimination of others.

That was great to hear a firm yes on your answer. If we look at the explanation behind the policy you will find that the physical elements of security override the mental reservations in the field and since there is no constitutional right to serve in the armed forces you have your work cut out for you. Here are some points of interest from the policy concerning homosexuality in the armed forces

(11) The pervasive application of the standards of conduct is necessary because members of the armed forces must be ready at all times for worldwide deployment to a combat environment.
(12) The worldwide deployment of United States military forces, the international responsibilities of the United States, and the potential for involvement of the armed forces in actual combat routinely make it necessary for members of the armed forces involuntarily to accept living conditions and working conditions that are often spartan, primitive, and characterized by forced intimacy with little or no privacy.
(13) The prohibition against homosexual conduct is a longstanding element of military law that continues to be necessary in the unique circumstances of military service.
(14) The armed forces must maintain personnel policies that exclude persons whose presence in the armed forces would create an unacceptable risk to the armed forces' high standards of morale, good order and discipline, and unit cohesion that are the essence of military capability.
(15) The presence in the armed forces of persons who demonstrate a propensity or intent to engage in homosexual acts would create an unacceptable risk to the high standards of morale, good order and discipline, and unit cohesion that are the essence of military capability.

Coming from active Air Force Colonel Om Prakash writes:

"After a careful examination, there is no scientific evidence to support the claim that unit cohesion will be negatively affected if homosexuals serve openly. Based on this research, it is not time for the administration to reexamine the issue; rather it is time for the administration to examine how to implement the repeal of the ban."

This statement alone derides your "homosexuals" create and unacceptable risk to the so-called high standards of morale, good order and discipline, an unit cohesion "argument."

You see there is not only 75% of public support for the repeal of DADT and the fact that a 2006 Zogby poll showed that a random sample of military personnel found that 75% were comfortable with gays and lesbians. In fact a very high majority of them were in favor of its repeal as well.

in addition to this "unit cohesion and high morale standards" include the raping of female soldiers, and the rape of male soldiers who refuse to hire prostitutes is a part of this "high moral code" that is a part of the armed services.

Oh and we should be grateful that the standards for military service is so high that we allow prisoners to enter the armed forces to work off their sentence, or that we allow racists and skinheads in, yet still kick out gay Arab linguists and decorated pilots simply because they wouldn't deny - WHEN BEING ASKED - about their sexual orientation.

Yeah, see you don't like to address the Don't Ask or the Don't Pursue part of the DADT policy. People are being kicked out for NOT telling, but for being HONEST! Which the last time I knew, honesty was a TRULY high moral standard, not lying.

You also seem to be under the impression that all of those gays and lesbians who are currently serving would come out of the closet, not only come out, but come flying out! THAT would not be the case. Many of them would still be in fear of retribution by their fellow servicemembers, but as the older bigots either leave or die off (whichever comes first) the newer generations entering wouldn't have that fear. As the military catches up with education, tolerance and acceptance, the military would gradually integrate itself.

Oops I forgot something, I have a question for you. Why do you hate our troops? Seriously! Do you really think so litte of our troops professionalism that they can't handle someone in their midst that just one day very well may save their life, or prevent an oncoming attack. Seriously, if you think so little of our servicemembers, then well, I'm at a loss of words.

I would defend your right to live and believe as you wish as long as you werent hurting others...

I will not and never will defend any actions on your part to deny equality to any minoritie that doesnt harm society by their sexual orientation or who they love.

Sad, indeed. However, earlier someone said they are tired of rebutting these stupid comments. That is part of the problem; most liberals rely on facts and logic, while most "conservatives" (with a few exceptions like William Brown) rely on emotion (and religious) based ideology to justify their hatred and bigotry.

I don't argue to change their minds. I argue so that they don't win the argument due to our lack of motivation to beat down the false arguments they present. That is the only reason I give them the time of day.

I agree with you mr. lightoller but on the other hand, if gays cant serve then maybe those bible thumpers can go in their place and with any luck at all get killed which would then make our world a safer place to live in...

And I agree with mr. hershey...

While it is indeed tiring having to continue to swat these pesky homohating flies...Better to swat them down now than to give these sex maniacs a chance to breed.

Give it up steadmen...

Your pathetic attempts at comming up with intellectual reasons for discrimination are doomed to failure from the get go simply because there is no intellectual reason for discrimination.

Just fear based on lies and misrepresentation of truth.

Joe, try as you may, you still FAIL!!!!

To reiterate my point, you are going under the assumption that as soon as the ban is lifted, all of our gay and lesbian servicemembers are not only going to come out of the closet, but come flying out, and start belting out We're Off To See The Wizard, or doing the Can Can. I can assure you that this won't happen.

Secondly, for someone who is so "pro-military," you sure do seem to think so little of our military that they cannot be professional enough to even act like professionals.

What it will do, is release some pressure off the shoulders of our gay and lesbian servicemembers knowing that they won't be given the boot if someone finds out. It will stop the witchhunts that are currently taking place.

Under the current policy, our gay and lesbian servicemembers cannot even carry a picture of their husbands, wives, partners, or whatever their relationship status, in their wallets. They cannot get on their computers and send their loved one an e-mail stating that they are okay, or that they love them because of fear of being booted out. Their spouses and partners can be shafted (this is also true for civilians - through different means) by the military because they have to list their relationship status as single in the military. Meaning, their spouses and partners cannot even make their final arrangements because they are not "next of kin."

There is an article over on Pam's House Blend that speaks of this very issue. One of the wives (a reservist) just received their orders to go to Iraq and the other will still be here in the states. The one here in the states doesn't trust her wife's parents to do the right thing should anything happen.

As I stated before, our military is so professional that it allows neo-nazi's, criminals, rapists, and racists in, but god forbid some faggot is going to see your itsy, bitsy, teeny,weeny short little pee pee or all else is going to break loose.

Believe it or not, but we don't fall all over ourselves trying to get with "straight" guys.